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Debunking SBVFT

 
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 04:46 pm
Quote:
Kerry lied about the atrocities then and still stands by those lies.


Because they are true, Xena. Is it neoconservative denial that has you all up in a tizzy, or is it the inability to actually DO the research on the subject of atrocities in Vietnam that gets your blood to boil?
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 05:03 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
Quote:
Kerry lied about the atrocities then and still stands by those lies.


Because they are true, Xena. Is it neoconservative denial that has you all up in a tizzy, or is it the inability to actually DO the research on the subject of atrocities in Vietnam that gets your blood to boil?


I doubt Kerry lied about himself committing atrocities that were a violation of the Geneva Conventions.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 05:05 pm
Xena wrote:
The support for S Vietnam in Congress was taken away because of people like Kerry and his ilk. It was a miracle they lasted as long as they did. We let down the south, they did not want to live in a dictatorship. The only shame was us pulling out. The shame of our country in not supporting democracy. Kerrys picture in the war museum is proudly displayed because if it wasn't for him, communist N Vietnam would have lost and millions would live in freedom today. If there was support instead of protests, the war wouldn't have lasted as long as it did. Our military wouldn't have been spit on when they returned from war. /quote]

yes that pesky vietnam war...what a shame we pulled out. it's so obvious that the domino effect has spread throughout the world and as a result of the north viet nam "victory" half the world is communist.

how anyone of sound mental health can criticize people of "that ilk" for helping us get out of a war that down to a person practically everyone admits was a huge fiasco is beyond me.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 05:17 pm
Quote:
I doubt Kerry lied about himself committing atrocities that were a violation of the Geneva Conventions.


Nor do I doubt that he didn't lie about the thousands of others who, under command by their superiors and a failed policy from the top command regarding the Vietnam war, did exactly the same thing.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 05:28 pm
I have a close friend whose daughters attended the same Dallas private school as did the Bush twins. On half a dozen occasions, the eldest of these two girls was invited to the Bush home. On every one of those occasions, she found Bush drunk.

Not on topic, but perhaps relevant.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 05:47 pm
I object , this is heresay,(well actually hearsay but it works too). Its blatant blatham blather.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 10:00 pm
It is such a pleasure to see Sean Hannity blow an interview and have a guest throw him a curve that he did not anticipate. Oops! Poor Jere Hill just had to blurt out the honest truth since he was not skilled in the art of deception as was Ollie North

Quote:
Appearing as a guest on FOX News Channel's Hannity & Colmes, FOX News Channel host Oliver North claimed that atrocities "did not happen" in the Vietnam War. But another anti-Kerry Vietnam veteran, Jere Hill, admitted just moments later that they did occur. Hill turned his back on Senator John Kerry (D-MA) in protest during the senator's August 18 speech at the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) 105th Annual Convention in Cincinnati.

From the August 25 edition of Hannity & Colmes:

DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST BOB BECKEL: Yes or no, Ollie. You were in Vietnam. Did or did not these atrocities happen in Vietnam? To your knowledge, did they or did they not?

NORTH: They sure -- to my personal knowledge, they sure as hell did not in my rifle company, and I was over there two times.

BECKEL: Wait a minute. Ollie, Ollie --

NORTH: They did not happen.

BECKEL: Ollie, you had never heard nor seen of anything about rape, about murder of villagers? First of all, Lieutenant Calley was convicted of that. You never, ever heard of any of these things? Now I'm asking you yes or no. You never heard of this?

NORTH: Sure, I heard about the Calley case. I went back over there and testified in a court --

COLMES: There was a Tiger Force.

BECKEL: And you never heard about rape or burning villages?

NORTH: No. Look, when I was there as a rifle platoon and company commander in Vietnam, not one single Marine that I led or a single soldier that came and bailed me out of a couple of fire fights participated in those kinds of activities. Not one.

[...]

CO-HOST SEAN HANNITY: Did you know anybody in Vietnam -- we were talking about this with Ollie [North] -- that committed any atrocities?

HILL: Well, you put me on the spot with that one.

HANNITY: Does that mean yes?

HILL: Yes.

HANNITY: You do know. Were you a witness to it?

HILL: Not during the performance of it. Afterwards.

HANNITY: You had heard about it?

HILL: Yes.

As Media Matters for America has noted, in addition to Hill's admission, there are detailed reports of atrocities committed by American forces in Vietnam. Besides well-documented accounts of the infamous My Lai massacre, three Toledo Blade reporters recently won the Pulitzer Prize for journalism for a series of articles titled "Buried Secrets, Brutal Truths," which uncovered atrocities committed by Tiger Force, an elite U.S. Army fighting unit in Vietnam. And in an August 3 appearance on Hannity & Colmes, retired General Tommy Franks referred to Kerry's 1971 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in which Kerry related other Vietnam veterans' personal stories about atrocities committed in Vietnam, saying, "I'm not sure that -- that activities like that didn't take place. In fact, quite the contrary. I'm sure that they did."

Source Media Matters
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 10:04 pm
Ollie North, defender of truth and the American Way.
0 Replies
 
1q2w3e
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 10:11 pm
Well, Kerry himself admitted to committing those attrocities, right?

But then Kerry lied about being in Cambodia, so his credability is shot.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 10:22 pm
trolling, as a technique, often requires using appealing bait. Otherwise the intended victim simple eats the bait and remains unhooked.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Aug, 2004 10:23 pm
Good grief. Are there no workhouses?
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 03:11 am
1q2w3e wrote:
Well, Kerry himself admitted to committing those attrocities, right?

But then Kerry lied about being in Cambodia, so his credability is shot.


o.k....one more time. kerry admitted to the crap like burning down hooches, free fire zones etc., as ordered. do these things violate the convention? hell if i know. kerry obviously found them atrocious. wouldn't you? bastard! he followed orders!

my father was on detachment from the u.s. navy with the british commandos during wwII for what we would now call "wet work" against the nazis in southern italy, after he did north africa and sicily. he tells me that if i were to try to get a record of it, there would be a blank page, so to speak. i only learned about it this year, before he went in for a surgery that he feared he would not survive...AND the ndo had run out.

strangely, when i hear the words, "cambodia" and "credibility", i think of john ellis o'neill's recent claims that he had never been in cambodia. and the tape recorded converstion he had with nixon in '71 whereupon he proudly told of being in cambodia. "on a swift boat?". "yes, on a swiftboat.".
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:22 am
Quote:
But then Kerry lied about being in Cambodia, so his credability is shot.


John O'Neil said to Nixon in 1971 that he WAS in Cambodia. Now he says he was not.

Whose credibility is shot now?
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:25 am
Kerry now admits he was not in Cambodia at Christmastime as he had said many times since returning from the war.

No member of his crew remembers EVER being in Cambodia.

Oops!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:25 am
Yer grasping at straws, Larry...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:26 am
Just making a factual observation, horn.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:28 am
I think, after all their accusations, this paper thin Cambodia thing is all they have left. It too shall pass.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:29 am
Yeah, but it's a weak factual observation with no real significance. Why, I could find 10 things that Bush has lies/misled/not presented evidence for his military service, but does that really matter today? There's no need to, he chokes to death on the issues just fine without me needing to sling mud to make him look like a traitor.

Which is what the republicans are doing, yaknow...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:33 am
I agree that Kerry's Senate record and his agenda for a Kerry administration is what we should be discussing instead of where Kerry was one Christmas.

When do you think he will start talking about that instead of making his 4 months in Viet Nam the centerpiece of his campaign, which is where he has started?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Aug, 2004 10:35 am
Well, he's been talking about it for a while now. When do you think people other than committed supporters will start listening?
0 Replies
 
 

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