Debunking SBVFT

McGentrix opines:

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You say that terrorism is on the rise, but outside of Iraq and Israel, terrorist attacks have not been that prevalent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5889435/

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Does he love the fact that 75% of Al Qadea's leadership has been captured?

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/article.php/20040817194537322

Boy, why can't rightwingers do their homework first before spewing such disinformation?

Unfortunately, this is all a clear indication that Dumbya's war against terrorism ISN'T WORKING.

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This is a great thread. After reading through it carefully, I would like to pose a few questions that I think have not been answered in any of the posts.

Regarding Kerry's first Purple Heart, which he was awarded for his service on Dec 2nd, 1968:

1. Why does his own journal contain a contradictory entry, saying that he didn't see fire until Dec 9th, 1968?

2. Why does he refuse to put up the after action report or citation for that particular Purple Heart on his website?

3. Also, why does he refuse to make all of his medical records public?

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Anybody?

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(I only just saw this.)

1.) I saw the journal thing under a heading of "contradictory" but then when I read the article it was a stretch. I'll see if I can find it.

2.) Who said he didn't? (Believe you, just what's your source?)

3.) ALL of his medical records? Or wartime? Can you give me your source again, and I'll investigate.

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OK, found the diary/ journal thing.

Quote:

A Kerry campaign official, speaking on background, told The Washington Times yesterday that the "we" in the passage from Mr. Kerry's journal refers to "the crew on Kerry's first swift boat, operating as a crew" rather than Mr. Kerry himself.

"John Kerry didn't yet have his own boat or crew on December 2," according to the aide. "Other members of the crew had been in Vietnam for some time and had been shot at and Kerry knew that at the time. However, the crew had not yet been fired on while they served together on PCF 44 under Lieutenant Kerry."

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=861966

So that would make sense to me, that this whole crew as a whole, this "we" (not "I"), hadn't been under fire. The fact that other members of the crew had been shot at in Vietnam and he knew as much underscores that he was talking about all of them, collectively. Like, if the Olympic basketball team is made up of people from various teams who have lost on their own teams, the new Olympic basketball team can still say "we are undefeated." (Until this year, of course. But I digress.)

At worst, though, it seems like a "Christmas" misstatement, in his own journal no less. There is lots of other corroboration for enemy fire when he got his first Purple Heart; nimh lays out most of it here:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=864265#864265

Though more has come in since, I think.

Give me more info on 2 and 3 and I'll see what I can do.

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The Boston Globe researched George Bush's own military records as released by the White House earlier this year. Here is what they found:

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In February, when the White House made public hundreds of pages of President Bush's military records, White House officials repeatedly insisted that the records prove that Bush fulfilled his military commitment in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.

But Bush fell well short of meeting his military obligation, a Globe reexamination of the records shows: Twice during his Guard service -- first when he joined in May 1968, and again before he transferred out of his unit in mid-1973 to attend Harvard Business School -- Bush signed documents pledging to meet training commitments or face a punitive call-up to active duty.

He didn't meet the commitments, or face the punishment, the records show. The 1973 document has been overlooked in news media accounts. The 1968 document has received scant notice.

Read the full article here.

Strictly speaking, this doesn't debunk anything the SBVT commercials explicitly say. But it does debunk their implication that Mr. Bush, unlike Mr. Kerry, is not 'unfit for command' because he, unlike John Kerry, did not oversell his record. That's why I think the link might be helpful in this thread.

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I agree, Thomas, thanks.

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And from Kristoff this morning, who has previously laid off the question of Bush's Guard records, or lack of them...

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President Bush claims that in the fall of 1972, he fulfilled his Air National Guard duties at a base in Alabama. But Bob Mintz was there - and he is sure Mr. Bush wasn't.

Plenty of other officers have said they also don't recall that Mr. Bush ever showed up for drills at the base. What's different about Mr. Mintz is that he remembers actively looking for Mr. Bush and never finding him...

LINK

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How 'bout if one of you guys start a new topic on that one -- I do agree that it belongs here (goose/gander), but would love to see it get more attention.

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soz

Apparently this evening is when 60 minutes is doing a package on Ben Barnes (the local Republican who helped get Bush, and other rich connected kids, into the guard) and on related matters. I'll chuck both pieces noted above into a thread, and include the 60 minutes information, after the broadcast.

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'K, II'll start a new thread on it... :-D

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Thanks! (Edit: this originally applied to Blatham's offer, but now it works for Sozobe's as well.)

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Too slow?

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Here's your Kristof link -- the one above is about abuses:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/08/opinion/08kristof.html

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Not so much slow, as putting it in a thread where people who don't want to see it won't see it. How many *new* threads were opened about SBVfT?

Any of y'all can do it, I'm just tracking down links right now, lemme know.

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Here we go:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33328

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Oops!

Now we've cannibalized each other.

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Nah, nobody had responded to mine yet, maybe yours will get their attention.

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(And it's not like there was never more than one SBVfT thread up at the same time!!)

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From the NYTimes article:

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Does this disqualify Mr. Bush from being commander in chief? No. But it should disqualify the Bush campaign from sliming the military service of a rival who still carries shrapnel from Vietnam in his thigh.

Amen.

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Debunking SBVFT

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