If Trump gets to be elected President...

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...my image about the US of A will need a big revising...and for the worst.
I mean, something has to be deeply wrong with a culture that elects a guy like that. And its not like you can debate this with poor excuses.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 1,226 • Replies: 26

[+4] - Lilkanyon - 05/06/2016[quote="Blickers"] Quote BB: [quote]As its chief diplomat she was supposed to be DIPLOMATIC. The exact opposite of that is making enemies wherever she goes, which is exactly what she...
[+4] - Blickers - 05/08/2016So by your own post, you admit that Hillary served the same number of terms as all but one of the rest of the Secretaries of State in the last forty years. Actually, Hillary has served as long or...
[+4] - revelette2 - 05/08/2016[url=http://rss.tribunecontentagency.com/websvc-bin/rss_story_read.cgi?resid=201605051630TMS_____BPRESS___tt--m-a_20160505]A monster the media created[/url] [quote]On Wednesday, May 4, less than...
[+4] - maporsche - 05/09/2016Hillary Clinton could not have ran for president AND served as secretary of state at the same time. It's extremely tough for presidents to do that and they have huge staffs of support.
[+3] - Blickers - 05/06/2016A Trumplike example is not unknown among major powers. Italy elected Berlusconi, didn't they? And he was a flamboyant businessman, not in government. As Berlusconi ended up in jail eventually,...
[+3] - Lilkanyon - 05/06/2016I think Trump and Putin se eye to eye more then people may realize. Trump cannot separate the good of gov from the selfishness of business. And as much as conservatives hate the idea of the...
[+3] - Blickers - 05/07/2016Your link doesn't back up your post. It was just John Kerry's plans for the Middle East and other places-no mention of Hillary at all. And most Secretaries of State resign at the end of the first...
[+3] - revelette2 - 05/07/2016I was thinking perhaps she needed a break if she was still thinking of running for president. From what I remember of her during her time as secretary of state, she was run ragged all over the...
[+3] - Blickers - 05/08/2016Let's look at the record of presidents and Secretaries of State. Truman........... 2 terms, 3 Secretaries of State Eisenhower..... 2 Terms, 2 Secretaries of State Kennedy..........0.75 Terms,...
[+3] - Blickers - 05/08/2016I have confidence that, going back to the end of WWII, no Secretary of State has started any President's first term and gone on to finish that president's second term. I have given you the list of...

We have a saying, in my neck of the woods: "Stupidity is the equal of intelligence."

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

...my image about the US of A will need a big revising...and for the worst.
I mean, something has to be deeply wrong with a culture that elects a guy like that. And its not like you can debate this with poor excuses.

What is your definition of "wrong"? Apparently many do not agree with your definition.

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A Trumplike example is not unknown among major powers. Italy elected Berlusconi, didn't they? And he was a flamboyant businessman, not in government.

As Berlusconi ended up in jail eventually, it wasn't a completely successful experiment. But it did happpen.

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I think Trump and Putin se eye to eye more then people may realize. Trump cannot separate the good of gov from the selfishness of business. And as much as conservatives hate the idea of the separation of govt and business, its a necessity to avoid corruption.
They're are two reasons for Trump running for Prez. First....pure narcissism...second...total control of business over govt. IE...total privitazation...Putin is proven corrupt in business. You think Trump doesnt respect and admire and desire that same power? Hes playing us all!

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All of the candidates are and have been atrocious. Hillary Clinton is a monster in a polyester pantsuit. Bernie Sanders is a martian posing as a human who makes Jerry Brown seem like a conservative.
THINK for a moment. What was Hillary's number one job as Secretary of State? Being a diplomatic spokesperson for the USA, of course. As its chief diplomat she was supposed to be DIPLOMATIC. The exact opposite of that is making enemies wherever she goes, which is exactly what she did. Listen as she smirks, taking pride in making enemies in broad swaths, including half the voting public of the USA and the entire nation of Iran.

The people of the United States cannot be blamed for electing a jerk when the only choices are all jerks. Some blame must go to the system itself and the nature of the job that keeps the really spectacular potential candidates from ever running.

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@Banana Breath,

Quote BB:

Quote:

As its chief diplomat she was supposed to be DIPLOMATIC. The exact opposite of that is making enemies wherever she goes, which is exactly what she did. Listen as she smirks, taking pride in making enemies in broad swaths, including half the voting public of the USA and the entire nation of Iran.

A. The question is what enemies is she proudest of making. She answered the question. Is that wrong?

B. Iran. You're upset that she said Iran did not like her. Iran has been screaming for the head of the US and for Allah to strike and smite the whole country into a smoldering pile of ruins for three decades now-and you think she was being too rough on Iran?

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@Blickers,

Blickers wrote:

Quote BB:

Quote:
As its chief diplomat she was supposed to be DIPLOMATIC. The exact opposite of that is making enemies wherever she goes, which is exactly what she did. Listen as she smirks, taking pride in making enemies in broad swaths, including half the voting public of the USA and the entire nation of Iran.

A. The question is what enemies is she proudest of making. She answered the question. Is that wrong?

B. Iran. You're upset that she said Iran did not like her. Iran has been screaming for the head of the US and for Allah to strike and smite the whole country into a smoldering pile of ruins for three decades now-and you think she was being too rough on Iran

Ikr? Not sure what last post was trying to prove. No sec of state is going to be loved by any of our traditional enemies. Isnt that a GOP conserv dream anyway? I mean seriously, if a dem actually makes a good, proper, mutual peace treaty, its evil. If Ronald Reagan was a dem, he would be hated for not invading Russia or whatever they want to drum up, but he is a hero. But dems did NOTHING when Bush's admin lied to all the people about the Iraq war, which spawned ISIS. Tbh? I saw this crap coming. I never wanted this war. This is my biggest strike against Clinton. How could you not see this coming? I read 2 books on the history of the middle east and knew this was a bad idea. Your smartest and brightest disnt see this coming? But those lies didnt bring impeachment hearings did they? But a blowjob does? GOP are assholes, sorry guys. Grow up.

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Not a surprising development.

Mitt Romney met privately with William Kristol, who is leading the effort to draft an independent candidate

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@Blickers,

Quote:

B. Iran. You're upset that she said Iran did not like her. Iran has been screaming for the head of the US and for Allah to strike and smite the whole country into a smoldering pile of ruins for three decades now-and you think she was being too rough on Iran?

In case you missed it, Democrat BARACK OBAMA felt strongly that Hillary grossly missed the mark as Secretary of State and was not meeting HIS objectives. That's why he replaced her with Democrat John Kerry. Guess what? Kerry actually WORKED on furthering peace initiatives not only with Iran, but also with Russia, in Syria, with Cuba, and a long list of other places. All these things were SUPPOSED to have been addressed by Hillary but were not, which is why she was canned from the job and replaced with a far more competent person. This isn't partisan politics, this is Democrats having a solid vote of NO CONFIDENCE in one of their own and replacing her with someone who could do the job. The well-respected Brookings Institution had many positive things to say about Kerry's efforts. I invite you to try to find ANY such praise for Hillary's efforts while SHE had that job. Your absolute duty as a citizen is to realize just why that is. If you think a loose-cannon candidate (whether Democrat or Republican) with a huge chip on their shoulder and their finger on the trigger of the nuclear arsenal benefits anyone other than bomb manufacturers, please enlighten us.
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/markaz/posts/2015/12/07-john-kerry-keynote-address-maloney

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@Banana Breath,

Your link doesn't back up your post. It was just John Kerry's plans for the Middle East and other places-no mention of Hillary at all. And most Secretaries of State resign at the end of the first term, like Hillary did. You didn't know that?

Henry Kissinger..... 1973–1977..... May 27, 1923 (age 92)
George P. Shultz..... 1982–1989..... December 13, 1920 (age 95)
James Baker..... 1989–1992..... April 28, 1930 (age 86)
Madeleine Albright..... 1997–2001 .....May 15, 1937 (age 78)
Colin Powell..... 2001–2005..... April 5, 1937 (age 79)
Condoleezza Rice..... 2005–2009..... November 14, 1954 (age 61)
Hillary Clinton ..... 2009–2013 .....October 26, 1947 (age 68)

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@Blickers,

The reason there's no mention of Hillary is because she didn't DO anything constructive as secretary of state. If you want to defend her, go ahead, the internet is yours. Find some references that she did ANYTHING other than compromise state secrets by routing national secrets through her own mail server. How funny it is that you can find many thousands of pages detailing the accomplishments of all the others (regardless of party) that you listed who held the post.

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@Banana Breath,

The article you linked was not ABOUT Hillary Clinton. It was not about Kerry having a some kind of hard time as a result of Clinton. It was not about Hillary Clinton at all. It was just an article about what Kerry, who has been Secretary of State for years, is doing now.

By the way, do you have any rejoinders about how Secretaries of State usually only serve four years, so there's no evidence that Hillary was replaced unusually? She just served the same one term almost all of them do.

Be back later. I'm sure you have some prepared post on your hard drive to run down Hillary, with little substance.

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@Blickers,

I was thinking perhaps she needed a break if she was still thinking of running for president. From what I remember of her during her time as secretary of state, she was run ragged all over the globe. Now she is run ragged campaigning, probably glad she took a break.

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@Blickers,

Quote:

By the way, do you have any rejoinders about how Secretaries of State usually only serve four years, so there's no evidence that Hillary was replaced unusually? She just served the same one term almost all of them do.

Nonsense. Obama's presidency is the 44th, but only 21 earned a second term in office, and only 13 served two full terms. So that's a very small pool to work with. REGARDLESS of this fact, 10 secretaries of state served 2282 days or more (over 78% of an 8-year period): Hull, Rusk, Seward, Adams, Fish, Madison, Hay, Forsyth, Shultz and Dulles. It should be obvious to those of us who aren't mathematically challenged that many who held the position were likely eminently qualified and would likely have been invited to serve a full second term, but that is virtually impossible when their boss isn't re-elected and the opposing party takes the reins.
That Hillary was kicked out should be obvious; but here are some points you apparently missed. 1) Obama hasn't been inclined to sweep out his cabinet regularly, he held onto Eric Holder February 3, 2009 – April 27, 2015 for instance even when he was facing charges of perjury and contempt of congress. Of 15 cabinet positions, Obama kept 11 past the first term. 2) Kerry unquestionably gets his orders from the president and carries out the president's agenda, so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if Kerry is working on something and showing progress, that it was something that Obama wanted done but had NOT been done by his predecessor Hillary. It would be tedious to list them all and I've mentioned some of the major ones already; except to people with their heads in the sand it should be obvious, and even many of Obama's greatest supporters have agreed. Jimmy Carter for instance cited John Kerry as “one of the best secretaries of state we’ve ever had.” Go ahead and try to find him praising ANY effort by Hillary Clinton.

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@Banana Breath,

Quote Banana Breath:

Quote:

10 secretaries of state served 2282 days or more (over 78% of an 8-year period): Hull, Rusk, Seward, Adams, Fish, Madison, Hay, Forsyth, Shultz and Dulles.

Are you for real? Schultz is the only name on that list which can be called even remotely recent. Seward was the guy who got Alaska for the US from the Russians, and John Jay was the first secretary of state. Hillary was the second longest serving Secretary of State in the last 40 years. The idea that she was booted out is preposterous.

Using Jimmy Carter as a guide re Mrs Clinton is foolish. Carter has never liked the Clintons stemming from Bill's first days in office when Republicans, trying to equate Bill Clinton with Carter, were not answered back with statements defending Carter. After that, Jimmy has taken his opportunities to run down the Clintons whenever possible.

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@Blickers,

Eleven of fifteen cabinet members kept their positions into the second administration. That's over 73%. That sounds to me like Obama had no hesitation to keep anyone who was doing even a remotely good job. But maybe in your mind Obama said "Hillary is doing a wonderful job but I must kick her out because 4 years is long enough for a secretary of state (but not for the other secretaries)." Mmmhmm. I don't think so.

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The Mythology Of Trump’s ‘Working Class’ Support

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@Banana Breath,

Quote Banana Breath:

Quote:

Eleven of fifteen cabinet members kept their positions into the second administration. That's over 73%. That sounds to me like Obama had no hesitation to keep anyone who was doing even a remotely good job.

And yet Hillary has the second longest term serving as Secretary of State in the last 40 years. Sounds like a testament to her value to the Administration. Also, when comparing Secretaries of State, I really do think it makes more sense to compare them to previous Secretaries of State, as opposed to comparing them to present day Secretaries of Agriculture or Secretaries of Transportation.

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@Blickers,

Quote:

Hillary has the second longest term serving as Secretary of State in the last 40 years.

That's a gross mis-characterization of the reality; once again your difficulties with math are showing. Hillary served one full term; within the past 40 years quite a few others served one full term or more, including Cyrus Vance, George Shultz, Warren Christopher, Madeleine Albright, Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice. However there were only 3 two-term administrations during this time; it is meaningless to split hairs on whether Hillary was kicked out on January 21st or February 1st, the fact is she was kicked out, and unlike the single term presidencies in this period, Obama had the option to keep her if there were the slightest thread of value in doing so.

1 Reply

If Trump gets to be elected President...

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