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Was God creating Satan a good idea?

 
 
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 06:41 am
Was God creating Satan a good idea?

Eden and creation seemed to be going along quite well for God and man until Satan was cast into Eden by God. God would have been in charge of who he allowed into the Garden of Eden. After all, God would have kept a firm control of who entered his new day care so as to insure the wellbeing of Adam and Eve.

Being all knowing, God already knew that Satan, with God’s own power of deception, would successfully tempt Eve to eat of the tree of all possible knowledge.

It almost seems as if God wanted us to and planned for us to fail. Perhaps that is why the Church called Adams sin a happy fault and necessary sin.

Christian dogma, the opposite of Jewish dogma, has Satan as God’s nemesis and arch rival for the souls of mankind. God’s foreknowledge would have told him that Satan would cause him to condemn the vast majority of his beloved souls to hell and death and thus play into Satan’s hands. This to me seems like God creating a huge amount of grief for himself and mankind, unless God truly wanted man to fail, --- and sin was a happy fault and necessary sin as the Church says.

Did Adam and Eve actually do what God really wanted them to do, and was God creating Satan a good idea?

We are told by the Church and scriptures to emulate God.

Should all parents do as God did and create a situation of failure for their children so as to insure that they too have the happy fault and necessary sin that makes them fail?

Why was it important for God to insure that we failed?

Regards
DL
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 06:50 am
@Greatest I am,
Greatest I am wrote:
Was God creating Satan a good idea?

Do you personally actually believe in God and Satan?
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 06:55 am
@rosborne979,
I dunno about god, but yes, I always leave out a carrot and a glass of sherry once a year.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 06:59 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
I dunno about god, but yes, I always leave out a carrot and a glass of sherry once a year.

Are you sure you aren't expecting the Easter Bunny and Julia Child?
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 08:23 am
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
Did Adam and Eve actually do what God really wanted them to do, and was God creating Satan a good idea?
I think A&E did do exactly what God expected they would but wanted it to be their choice nonetheless.

Was Satan a 'good' idea? I'm guessing that God wanted interesting company when he created Satan and other angels and gave them sentience and free choice in the interest of that goal and perhaps help with other projects. That did of course entail some risk that they would make choices he didn't like. Just the nature of the beast.

If you define 'necessary' as 'good' then yes, Satan was a good idea.
saab
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 10:32 am
@Greatest I am,
He certainly has tempted me to do some fun things I otherwise might have missed
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 11:32 am
Batman needs a Joker. In fact, the foe in these things is usually more interesting than the hero.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 02:00 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Was God creating Satan a good idea?

Do you personally actually believe in God and Satan?


No. Hell no.

I just see a lot of problems with the myth.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 02:01 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

I dunno about god, but yes, I always leave out a carrot and a glass of sherry once a year.


Those are for snow men.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 02:06 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
Did Adam and Eve actually do what God really wanted them to do, and was God creating Satan a good idea?
I think A&E did do exactly what God expected they would but wanted it to be their choice nonetheless.

Was Satan a 'good' idea? I'm guessing that God wanted interesting company when he created Satan and other angels and gave them sentience and free choice in the interest of that goal and perhaps help with other projects. That did of course entail some risk that they would make choices he didn't like. Just the nature of the beast.

If you define 'necessary' as 'good' then yes, Satan was a good idea.


The Church seemed to think so because they were quick to reverse the win win moral that the Jews had put to the story.

They could get a lot more indulgences if people thought they were fallen than if they thought they were elevated.

Money, money, money, it's a rich mans world.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 02:09 pm
@saab,
saab wrote:

He certainly has tempted me to do some fun things I otherwise might have missed


Satan or God?

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 02:10 pm
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
The Church seemed to think so because they were quick to reverse the win win moral that the Jews had put to the story.

They could get a lot more indulgences if people thought they were fallen than if they thought they were elevated.

Money, money, money, it's a rich mans world.

Regards
DL
**** the church.

You misrepresented your interest as being about the theological issues in the OP, not the church. If you want to talk about flaws with them, say so in your OP.

All the best,
Leadfoot
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2016 02:11 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Batman needs a Joker. In fact, the foe in these things is usually more interesting than the hero.


Yep. Cant be much of a hero without an arch enemy to destroy.

Strange that most Christians have not picked up on that.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:03 pm
@Greatest I am,
God is accountable for EVERY act by EVERYTHING.

'satan' only exists in people's minds - Unless you have evidence to the contrary?
0 Replies
 
ErikaJW
 
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Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2016 02:10 pm
@Greatest I am,
That is a very interesting question you posted. Let's see what the Bible says:

God did not create the Devil. Read James 1:13, 14 in your personal copy of the Bible. It tells us that God is not capable of evil things. So God created an angel who later BECAME the Devil, also known as Satan. Jesus implied that at one time the Devil had been truthful and guiltless. Originally, then, the Devil was a righteous angelic son of God. The angel who became the Devil chose to oppose God and incited the first human pair to join him. He thus made himself Satan, which means “Resister.”—Read Genesis 3:1-5; Revelation 12:9.

Like the rest of God’s intelligent creatures, the angel that became the Devil had the FREEDOM to choose between doing right and doing wrong, but he developed a desire to be worshipped. His desire for glory was stronger than his desire to please God.

Please read Genesis 3:6. Here we learn that Eve CHOSE to disobey God and eat fruit from the tree that God had instructed them NOT to eat from, just like a young child, for example, may choose to disobey their parents and watch a very scary movie. The parents did their job and taught their child why they shouldn't watch the scary movie, but the child still CHOSE to do it anyway. It was the same with Adam and Eve, and the angel that later became Satan the Devil.

Please read Isaiah 48:17, 18. Here we learn that God teaches us right from wrong, but a person will only find peace if they choose to obey, just like a young child will not have nightmares is he or she chooses not to watch the scary movie.

You had a very thought-provoking Bible question. For answers to any other Bible questions, go to JW.org and type your question into the search field.

Good day to you.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2016 03:30 pm
Self-delusion knows no bounds.
Leadfoot
 
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Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2016 04:21 pm
@ErikaJW,
Quote:
The angel who became the Devil chose to oppose God and incited the first human pair to join him. He thus made himself Satan, which means “
I get your point that God did not make the evil that Satan turned out to be but you have grossly overstated things by saying that the first human 'joined him'.

Sounds like a bit of JW doctrine, not reflected in the bible.
0 Replies
 
Kathy2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2016 04:36 pm
@Greatest I am,
Satan wasn't the Devil at first, he was one of Gods Angels... but Lucifer wanted to be God, but God said no, and they had a battle in Heaven, and Lucifer went to Hell, so he is the "god" of Hell in a way. so God didn't make Satan at first. it was Lucifers free will that made him Satan
Leadfoot
 
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Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2016 04:40 pm
@Kathy2,
Quote:
and Lucifer went to Hell,
Eventual destination, but not there yet. In my reading of the book, Satan reasoned that he had a better right to rule in heaven than God.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
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Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2016 04:58 pm
@ErikaJW,
ErikaJW wrote:
Please read Genesis 3:6. Here we learn that Eve CHOSE to disobey God and eat fruit from the tree that God had instructed them NOT to eat from, just like a young child, for example, may choose to disobey their parents and watch a very scary movie. The parents did their job and taught their child why they shouldn't watch the scary movie, but the child still CHOSE to do it anyway. It was the same with Adam and Eve, and the angel that later became Satan the Devil.


This isn't a very good analogy, though, because a young child is given rules but wasn't given free will by his parents, whereas, according to your interpretation, the god of the Bible did give mankind free will and then rules. It would seem irrational to give free will to a being and then expect them to follow a certain course of action.

Isn't wisdom supposed to be one of this god's attributes?
0 Replies
 
 

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