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Was God creating Satan a good idea?

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 04:58 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Smileyrius wrote:
. . . I am of the belief that the hardships we suffer on Earth are a consequence, rather than a test. . .
Makes sense. We have free will, as did the entity who posed as the serpent. To aver otherwise would place the entire 6000 +/- years of human misery squarely on the shoulders of our Creator.

Upon whose shoulders do we squarely place the entirety of human happiness?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 05:08 pm
@Smileyrius,
There is no such thing as eternal population growth.

With current trends human beings will likely reach zero population growth in the next few decades. Some researchers estimate we will reach a peak population of 8.7 billion in 2055. After this time the population starts declining.

Population is already declining in most developed countries. The US currently has birth rate 1.88 children per woman (you need slightly over 2 children per woman just to keep the population stable).



Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 01:37 am
@Leadfoot,
The uneven playing field I refer to my friend, is more concerned with life being cut short especially poignant in baby and child deaths. although it certainly does factor in cultural backgrounds, economic position, Subjection to Crises, Mental Health and Welfare matters etc.

If you want to test 100 subjects, surely the only fair way to do so is to subject them all to the same test, or the results can be misleading.
So the poser that has left me unable to reconcile the test theory is this

Is the Earth as God intended it? Does God consider it a fair test? If it is unfair, why does God allow it, if God considers it fair, then by default, rape, war, abuse and murder are all acceptable to him as part of the test.

If Justice is in there somewhere, it is not apparent to me.
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 01:56 am
@InfraBlue,
My apologies Infra, my grammar stick gets a little bent out of shape sometimes. Let me try to straighten this one out

The answer to the question ,"does man need Gods rule" could only be made abundantly clear by temporarily removing man from under Gods rule and establishing a precedence. Once an example is established, the question need never be asked again.

I hope that is better, but am happy to go as many times as I need to.

Smiley,
Duncin'
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 03:33 am
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:
If Justice is in there somewhere, it is not apparent to me.


In replay to your entire post, i'd like to observe that i find almost all theists to be deluded to a certain degree--most of them seriously deluded. I have come to the conclusion that you are the least self-deluded theist of whom i know.
Smileyrius
 
  3  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 03:39 am
@Setanta,
I appreciate the sentiment Set.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 03:55 am
The best I know of Satan is PI and the river bank lines look better with it...
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 06:46 am
@Leadfoot,
Because it has philosophical content.
Satan doesn't exist in my mind, for 'good and evil' are human concepts, not Nature's.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 06:54 am
@maxdancona,
1.25 annual increase on (Current 7.35 billion) = 1 billion per decade.
Global pop (less) some extreme natural (other) disaster, will be approx' 8 billion by 2025 - 9 billion (unsustainable) by 2035.
By 2055 - It will be closer to 10.5 - 11 billion
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 07:06 am
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
If Justice is in there somewhere, it is not apparent to me.
All those objections are easily remedied.

Maybe there is a 'handicap' system as in Golf.

Maybe you are judged only on the portion of the test you had time to complete.

Maybe he grades us all on the curve.

I don't find them satisfying but:
Some religions just give extra credit/virgins/get to rule earth/etc for extra hard assignments.

Others say God just grades us all while looking at the best student's test paper.

0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 07:08 am
@mark noble,
Quote:
Satan doesn't exist in my mind, for 'good and evil' are human concepts, not Nature's.
Ever get pissed when someone butts in line ahead of you? These kind of things are universal and it's in your mind.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 07:16 am
@Leadfoot,
I get 'pissed' at various things - I call it 'frustration' not the devil's doing.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 10:05 am
@Leadfoot,
Glenn quote:
Quote:
I've already pointed out to you that you are being challenged to explain your irresistible urge to love and worship an alleged god whose character is shown to be contradictory in nature.

Leadfoot quote:
Quote:
You're thinking of a different thread (or sub thread) Glennn

It is in this thread that you characterized debating about the god as an irresistible urge which was due to our stewing. It was therefore appropriate for me to characterize your urge to love and worship of an alleged being as irresistible. And yes, I recall your answer to that in another thread, which amounted to you saying that your love and worship of this being is based on the fact that it is the only deal in town.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 04:02 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
I get 'pissed' at various things - I call it 'frustration' not the devil's doing.
Not that simple.

What exactly is it that frustrates you in that situation. If you are honest about it, you know it's not the same thing as getting stuck in a traffic jam when you're in a hurry, although that is frustrating too.

And what is it that caused the other bloke to feel he had the right to butt in front of you.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 04:15 pm
@Glennn,
I don't think I've ever been this mischaracterized before.
Quote:
It is in this thread that you characterized debating about the god as an irresistible urge which was due to our stewing.

You got that backwards. We stew BECAUSE of that irresistible urge.

Quote:
It was therefore appropriate for me to characterize your urge to love and worship of an alleged being as irresistible.

Totally wrong. There is no inherent urge to love and worship, the urge is to stew or ponder. If you yield to that urge, follow it and find the root of that urge, THEN you are likely to find that which is worthy of love and worship

Quote:
And yes, I recall your answer to that in another thread, which amounted to you saying that your love and worship of this being is based on the fact that it is the only deal in town.

Now THAT's a down right dastardly misrepresentation. The fact might be that God is the only game in town but I've previously said that if he were the God that many religions say he is, I'd want to find and kill him. I'd do that even if he was the only game in town.

I can't imagine how you got that so wrong.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 05:04 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
You got that backwards. We stew BECAUSE of that irresistible urge.

You are still interpreting challenges to your beliefs as stewing on the part of the questioner. It's not. I'm neither stewing nor pondering. The purpose of my questions is to show the untenable nature of belief in the biblical god.
Quote:
There is no inherent urge to love and worship, the urge is to stew or ponder. If you yield to that urge, follow it and find the root of that urge, THEN you are likely to find that which is worthy of love and worship

Yes, this perfectly describes the process of indoctrination into any cult. Nothing new here.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 07:22 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
I've previously said that if he were the God that many religions say he is, I'd want to find and kill him.

But we're not talking about the god that many religions say it is. We're talking about the god that the Bible describes. If you don't believe that the Bible has it right when it comes to the nature of the god, what makes you think that the Bible has it right when it comes to the existence of the god?
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 07:55 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
You are still interpreting challenges to your beliefs as stewing on the part of the questioner. It's not. I'm neither stewing nor pondering. The purpose of my questions is to show the untenable nature of belief in the biblical god.
But show it to who? You must know convincing cult members is futile so are you sure it is not yourself you are trying to convince?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 07:59 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote: "....convincing cult members is futile."
So true.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2016 09:20 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
But show it to who? You must know convincing cult members is futile so are you sure it is not yourself you are trying to convince?

Well let's see here. People will google to learn about something, and they may want to learn about something that will bring them to this conversation that we are having. It wouldn't be good if they didn't get to see a point of view contrary to the one put forth by those who believe in the biblical god. And it would be good for them to see how some, like yourself, will attempt to characterize the challenge and challenger instead of meeting the challenge.

The biblical god is abhorrent. It takes a lot of years of obsessive book deification to come to the place where you would willingly love and worship a being of such unlovable nature.

So, it is good for readers to watch someone like yourself try to turn things around by suggesting that I must be trying to convince myself. Bad form . . .
 

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