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Was God creating Satan a good idea?

Forums: Religion, Satan, God
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2016 04:03 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Leadfoot wrote:

But yes, after that, no more self determination for them. That is the prerogative you have when you are the God who created them and gave them life to begin with.

That does not seem unreasonable to me, especially when those losing self determination are determined to destroy the end goal that their creator wanted.



Given that mankind has no say in the matter, that is unjust and unfair, to say the very least.


To give your complaint legitimacy you have to have a foundation for your complaint. Satan provided a foundation for his complaint and was given a full hearing and trial (still under way). If you can provide a real framework for yours, I'm sure you will get a fair hearing too. But it has to be better that a cry of 'It's not fair'.


What's the foundation of Satan's complaint?

The foundation of my complaint is that mankind has no say in the matter.

Leadfoot wrote:
Currently, you have been given carte blanche of self determination in this existence. Then you are offered eternal existence in God's kingdom if you choose. What restrictions do you feel will be imposed on you there that you object to?


I'm not referring to restrictions placed on me. The restrictions I'm referring to are the end of mankind's self-determination.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2016 06:10 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
What's the foundation of Satan's complaint?
The foundation of my complaint is that mankind has no say in the matter.
We simply disagree. We have complete say in the matter of our existence. You have yet to tell me how your 'say' is denied. Remember I do not agree with the restrictions others have said are imposed.

Leadfoot wrote:
Currently, you have been given carte blanche of self determination in this existence. Then you are offered eternal existence in God's kingdom if you choose. What restrictions do you feel will be imposed on you there that you object to?



Quote:
I'm not referring to restrictions placed on me. The restrictions I'm referring to are the end of mankind's self-determination.
Oh come now. You are part of mankind and the only restrictions that will ever be placed on mankind 'in the end' are that no part of mankind will be allowed to take away the self determination of another part of mankind.

If that is your objection, I offer you no sympathy.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2016 06:19 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
All aspects of self-determination will be denied.
InfraBlue wrote:
According to your dogma, God has given man self-determination and will end it on Armageddon.
Please explain where you found this information
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 01:47 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
All aspects of self-determination will be denied.
InfraBlue wrote:
According to your dogma, God has given man self-determination and will end it on Armageddon.
Please explain where you found this information


The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 02:00 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.
And that is bad because?....
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 02:43 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.
And that is bad because?....

It's bad because it will deny humans the choice of self-determination.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 02:46 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
InfraBlue wrote:

The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.

Neo wrote:
And that is bad because?....

Blue wrote:
It's bad because it will deny humans the choice of self-determination.

And That's why I can't hook up with any religion.
I don't need to 'rule' but I gotta be me.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 03:47 pm
@Leadfoot,
What do you know, you're sympathizing with me after all.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 04:11 pm
@InfraBlue,
Well, you got me there.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2016 06:05 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.
I wrote:
And that is bad because?....
InfraBlue wrote:
It's bad because it will deny humans the choice of self-determination.
Let's see:
Can you live where you wish?
Yes.
Can you choose your vocation?
Yes.
Can you travel anywhere?
Yes.
Eat lasagna 24/7?
Yes.
Can you play a musical instrument?
Yes. Learn 'em all.
If you don't like broccoli, do you have to eat it?
No.
So far, so good. How about.
Will any one get sick?
No.
Die?
No.
Will any one steal?
No.
Oppress or assault?
No.
Rape?
No.
Have I missed any areas of self determination?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 12:19 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
The battle of Armageddon will bring human rulership to an end.
I wrote:
And that is bad because?....
InfraBlue wrote:
It's bad because it will deny humans the choice of self-determination.
Let's see:
Can you live where you wish?
Yes.
Can you choose your vocation?
Yes.
Can you travel anywhere?
Yes.
Eat lasagna 24/7?
Yes.
Can you play a musical instrument?
Yes. Learn 'em all.
If you don't like broccoli, do you have to eat it?
No.
So far, so good. How about.
Will any one get sick?
No.
Die?
No.
Will any one steal?
No.
Oppress or assault?
No.
Rape?
No.
Have I missed any areas of self determination?

Yes. Self-rule, autonomy, sovereignty, self-sufficiency.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 10:48 am
@InfraBlue,
So, what of the things I mentioned would you exclude in your autonomy?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 10:51 am
@InfraBlue,
This is exactly the course Satan offered to Eve. How do you think it has worked so far?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 10:52 am
@InfraBlue,
I don't think neo can see the 'restrictions' on his list. Free will is definitely gone. To sin is human.
Do not kill means no eating of vegetables and meats.
I wonder if he can survive on salt, sugar, and honey.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 10:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
. . . Do not kill means no eating of vegetables and meats.
I wonder if he can survive on salt, sugar, and honey.
Are you saying I should steal from the bees?

I really enjoy your interjections, CI.

I'll be driving past your place in about 2 weeks. If time provides, you should buy me coffee - er - OK, I'll buy. I know coffee is technically a vegetable. But, I'll make an exception.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 11:01 am
@neologist,
That would be great if it doesn't conflict with our trip to Hawaii from May 12th to the 19th. Keep in touch at any rate. And I'll treat you to lunch or dinner.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 12:50 pm
If mankind chose Gods rule over mans at the end of the thousand year reign, is not that self determination at work?

Just offering a different angle, I'll come back to earlier discussion after the weekend when I have some time
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 01:57 pm
@neologist,
None of it.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 01:58 pm
@neologist,
It's worked as well as humanly possible.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2016 02:00 pm
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:

If mankind chose Gods rule over mans at the end of the thousand year reign, is not that self determination at work?

Just offering a different angle, I'll come back to earlier discussion after the weekend when I have some time

It will cease to be self-determination when God will negate that self-determination.
0 Replies
 
 

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