Which Religion is the One True Religion?

Mesquite...thanks for your comments, support, and the Numbers quote up above. I'm concentrating on the opposition....and sometimes forget to acknowledge these kinds of things.

Wolf...I appreciate your point.

The embryo or fetus is living...as in living tissue. But then again, so is a cancerous tumor.

I think there is a difference between something being "living"....and something be "alive."

In any case....the fact is that an embryo or a zygote or a fetus....is not independently alive. It survives only at the pleasure of a host. And if the host wishes to be free of it....that is the right of the host.

For these characters to pretend that murder is being commited is preposterous.

And...for the Christians...I ask again. What did Jesus have to say about abortion?

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If it is such a big thing among Christians....why did Jesus never so much as mention it?

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We are not here to save the world but to save the world of ourselves.

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shiyacic aleksandar wrote:

We are not here to save the world but to save the world of ourselves.

Once again you...

Look, even Genesis, if you believe it, clearly states that we were put here on Earth to look after it. Hence, we are here to save the world, because surely that is what is required of us if we are to successfully look after it?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

The embryo or fetus is living...as in living tissue. But then again, so is a cancerous tumor.

I think there is a difference between something being "living"....and something be "alive."

In any case....the fact is that an embryo or a zygote or a fetus....is not independently alive. It survives only at the pleasure of a host. And if the host wishes to be free of it....that is the right of the host.

Fact is that even after birth, the baby won't be independent for a number of years and survives only with the help of the mother ( "host" ? why can't you call a pregnant woman a "mother" Frank? you are in deep denial ) or other caretaker.

If neglected, the child will die even if it has been born and living outside the womb for a week, a month, a year and much longer. It won't be independently alive for a long time.

Your "independently living" argument holds no water whatsoever.

The figures I cited show clearly that the overwhelming majority of abortions are contraceptive in nature. When we allow one person to kill another for reasons of convenience, it becomes a very dangerous world. I'd advise you not to grow old and sick, Frank.

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real life wrote:

The figures I cited show clearly that the overwhelming majority of abortions are contraceptive in nature. When we allow one person to kill another for reasons of convenience, it becomes a very dangerous world. I'd advise you not to grow old and sick, Frank.

I've looked back to page 158, when this topic went off topic into the realms of abortion. I couldn't find these figures of yours or links to these figures.

At a certain stage in development, you really can't say that the zygote is a person. If there are no brainwaves or nerves, and the zygote is terminated, it cannot feel nor be aware of anything.

And in reply to a question you asked long, long, long ago...

Yes, abortion is more dangerous if it is illegal. There are those who are desperate not to have child and will have an abortion through any means possible. This may involve going to back-street practioners who have no idea what they're doing or even using knitting needles for DIY abortions.

One of the main reasons why abortion was legalised over here was due to the number of deaths from shoddy abortions.

A blanket ban on abortion won't stop abortions, as was shown in the UK during the 1800s, when women did everything to induce abortions including some rather bizarre techniques such as a hot bath and gin.

The only way to truly limit abortions to only that which is necessary is to tackle the pregnancies.

I suspect this is due not to liberalism in general, but to the sexing things up of movies and TV shows and advertisements, which may be actually protected by liberalism but is more to do with making a profit and greed than anything else.

Now can we get back on topic?

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real life wrote:

Fact is that even after birth, the baby won't be independent for a number of years and survives only with the help of the mother ( "host" ? why can't you call a pregnant woman a "mother" Frank? you are in deep denial ) or other caretaker.

If you are not bright enough to see the differnce between a living baby...dependent for its care....and a fetus growing in the body of a woman...then you really don't belong in a conversation of this sort. Perhaps you ought to stick to discussing movies or television shows.

Quote:

If neglected, the child will die even if it has been born and living outside the womb for a week, a month, a year and much longer. It won't be independently alive for a long time.

And your point is????

Quote:

Your "independently living" argument holds no water whatsoever.

It does to anyone with a brain and a willingness to use it.

Quote:

The figures I cited show clearly that the overwhelming majority of abortions are contraceptive in nature. When we allow one person to kill another for reasons of convenience, it becomes a very dangerous world. I'd advise you not to grow old and sick, Frank.

Abortion CANNOT be contraceptive in nature, Life...BECAUSE CONCEPTION HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

Main Entry: con·tra·cep·tion
Pronunciation: "kän-tr&-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: contra- + conception
: deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation
- con·tra·cep·tive /-'sep-tiv/ adjective or noun

Grow a brain...and then come back. It might be fun to discuss this stuff with you at that time.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Mesquite...thanks for your comments, support, and the Numbers quote up above. I'm concentrating on the opposition....and sometimes forget to acknowledge these kinds of things.

Wolf...I appreciate your point.

The embryo or fetus is living...as in living tissue. But then again, so is a cancerous tumor.

I think there is a difference between something being "living"....and something be "alive."

In any case....the fact is that an embryo or a zygote or a fetus....is not independently alive. It survives only at the pleasure of a host. And if the host wishes to be free of it....that is the right of the host.

For these characters to pretend that murder is being commited is preposterous.

And...for the Christians...I ask again. What did Jesus have to say about abortion?

Lu 23:29
For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

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RexRed wrote:

Lu 23:29
For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

"If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to
his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they
chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended
and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where
...his fellow citizens shall stone him to death." Deuteronomy 22:18ff

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Frank Apisa wrote:

If it is such a big thing among Christians....why did Jesus never so much as mention it?

Jesus never mentioned the H-bomb, either. Or for that matter:
Cigarettes,
Crack cocaine,
Machine guns,
Etc., ad nauseum

http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/puke1.gif

And your point was?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Abortion CANNOT be contraceptive in nature, Life...BECAUSE CONCEPTION HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

Main Entry: con·tra·cep·tion
Pronunciation: "kän-tr&-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: contra- + conception
: deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation
- con·tra·cep·tive /-'sep-tiv/ adjective or noun

Grow a brain...and then come back. It might be fun to discuss this stuff with you at that time.

Really, Frank. And what has been conceived?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Abortion CANNOT be contraceptive in nature, Life...BECAUSE CONCEPTION HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

Main Entry: con·tra·cep·tion
Pronunciation: "kän-tr&-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: contra- + conception
: deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation
- con·tra·cep·tive /-'sep-tiv/ adjective or noun

Grow a brain...and then come back. It might be fun to discuss this stuff with you at that time.

Frank, that is well understood by nearly everybody.

However, even the UN and the BBC uses the phrase "Abortion as Contraception" and expect that you will understand how the phrase is used.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2002/disposable_planet/population/choices/default.stm

http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/0/FFBC85913B4C5699C125662E00352F22?opendocument

So if you're done nitpicking, maybe you could really face the issue squarely. Semantic gymnastics can't hide what abortion is, Frank.

Your "it ain't a baby" round of denials gets really stale. (Maybe you should put it in bold print , that always looks convincing. )

Abortion is the butchery and dismembering and discarding of a baby into a dumpster, Frank , and you are defending it.

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neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
If it is such a big thing among Christians....why did Jesus never so much as mention it?
Jesus never mentioned the H-bomb, either. Or for that matter:
Cigarettes,
Crack cocaine,
Machine guns,
Etc., ad nauseum

And your point was?

There were no H-bombs or cigarettes, crack cocaine, machine guns etc.

But there was abortion.

It is, after all, the second old profession....occasioned by the oldest.

Hippocrates, who lived in the same area as Jesus...and who lived only a short time before him....considered abortion to be objectionable....and included a prohibition against it in his Hippocratic Oath.

My point was....WHY DIDN'T JESUS MENTION IT??????

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neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Abortion CANNOT be contraceptive in nature, Life...BECAUSE CONCEPTION HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

Main Entry: con·tra·cep·tion
Pronunciation: "kän-tr&-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: contra- + conception
: deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation
- con·tra·cep·tive /-'sep-tiv/ adjective or noun

Grow a brain...and then come back. It might be fun to discuss this stuff with you at that time.
Really, Frank. And what has been conceived?

A zygote!

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

real life wrote:
The figures I cited show clearly that the overwhelming majority of abortions are contraceptive in nature. When we allow one person to kill another for reasons of convenience, it becomes a very dangerous world. I'd advise you not to grow old and sick, Frank.

I've looked back to page 158, when this topic went off topic into the realms of abortion. I couldn't find these figures of yours or links to these figures.

..............And in reply to a question you asked long, long, long ago...

Yes, abortion is more dangerous if it is illegal. ...................Now can we get back on topic?

Look on 169, Wolf.

How can abortion be more dangerous for the child if its illegal, he dies either way. That was my point.

This abortion part of the topic was introduced by Imposter when he trashed Christians for opposing abortion, implying that disqualified Christianity.

If protecting innocent life disqualifies someone from being considered a follower of true religion, then are only abortion supporters followers of the true religion? I don't think Imposter would like that either. On the horns of another dilemma.................Back to you at the UN booth, Imposter.

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real life wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Abortion CANNOT be contraceptive in nature, Life...BECAUSE CONCEPTION HAS ALREADY OCCURRED.

Main Entry: con·tra·cep·tion
Pronunciation: "kän-tr&-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: contra- + conception
: deliberate prevention of conception or impregnation
- con·tra·cep·tive /-'sep-tiv/ adjective or noun

Grow a brain...and then come back. It might be fun to discuss this stuff with you at that time.

Frank, that is well understood by nearly everybody.

Apparently not you.

You claim abortion is a method of contraception.

I pointed out that it cannot be a method of contraception.

Quote:

However, even the UN and the BBC uses the phrase "Abortion as Contraception" and expect that you will understand how the phrase is used.

If they made that mistake in a conversation with me....I would correct them. And if someone jumps off a cliff...are you going to jump off it also?

Quote:

So if you're done nitpicking, maybe you could really face the issue squarely. Semantic gymnastics can't hide what abortion is, Frank.

I know what abortion is. It is the termination of a pregnancy.

You are the one wanting it to be murder and all the other shyt you mention in your next few thoughts.

I am calling it exactly what it is. You are the one distorting it.

Gad...you really should grow a brain before going further with this kind of thing.

Quote:

Your "it ain't a baby" round of denials gets really stale. (Maybe you should put it in bold print , that always looks convincing. )

Well...a fetus is not a baby....and a zygote is not a baby....and an embryo is not a baby....and an egg (even a fertilized egg) is not a chicken.

So why don't we simply use the language the way it was intended.

Quote:

Abortion is the butchery and dismembering and discarding of a baby into a dumpster, Frank , and you are defending it.

No, Life...it is not. You are the one distorting the meaning of the word. Get your head on straight.

Wake the hell up.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
If it is such a big thing among Christians....why did Jesus never so much as mention it?
Jesus never mentioned the H-bomb, either. Or for that matter:
Cigarettes,
Crack cocaine,
Machine guns,
Etc., ad nauseum

And your point was?

There were no H-bombs or cigarettes, crack cocaine, machine guns etc.

But there was abortion.

It is, after all, the second old profession....occasioned by the oldest.

Hippocrates, who lived in the same area as Jesus...and who lived only a short time before him....considered abortion to be objectionable....and included a prohibition against it in his Hippocratic Oath.

My point was....WHY DIDN'T JESUS MENTION IT??????

Jesus quoted the Ten Commandments. Among them is Thou shalt not kill, which He quoted.

How more specific do you want Him to get? Must He list all the possible means of killing,( Jesus to the crowd-- "let's see .....the spear, the sword, the knife, pushing off a cliff, running over with a chariot, poisoning, abortion, strangling, drowning......thou shalt not do any of these !" ) Do you really think Jesus has to spell it out for you, Frank? C'mon.

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Frank, These people will never wake up from their stupor; their brains have been forever altered. No matter what doctors and scientists say about an embryo, they continue to insist they are babies. It's hopeless.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank, These people will never wake up from their stupor; their brains have been forever altered. No matter what doctors and scientists say about an embryo, they continue to insist they are babies. It's hopeless.

Yeah....but you gotta admit. Duking it out with the ones who come on to the Internet to spread their poison is fun.

And my poker stinks right now....so best I stick here for a bit rather than sitting at the tables. Twisted Evil

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real life wrote:

Look on 169, Wolf.

Oh there it is. Thanks.

Those figures really do help me as well as you.

You see, I don't think the problem is abortion per se. The problem is unwanted pregnancies. Look how many there are in that source you provided.

Quote:

How can abortion be more dangerous for the child if its illegal, he dies either way. That was my point.

Is this all about the child? What about the mother? It's not just about the child, you know, it's also about the mother.

If abortion is illegal, two lives can be lost due to unsavoury practices, both the child's and the mother's. That is even less acceptable, I'm sure you'll agree.

Make abortions illegal? That's not solving the problem, that's just shoving it underground and shoving it towards other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_Kingdom

We must tackle it at the point of conception. I'm sure you'll agree with that.

I propose that this abortion discussion be dropped immediately, however, after your rebuttal. I will not reply to it though, in order to facilitate the process of getting back on topic.

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