Which Religion is the One True Religion?

Take your meds, Rex. You know how you get when you forget.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Take your meds, Rex. You know how you get when you forget.

Never been on any "meds"...

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Rex
By your rant I can surmise that you think Christianity is the true religion. Which one of the myrid of Christian religions do you think got it right? Rolling Eyes

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Frank Apisa wrote:

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Take your meds, Rex. You know how you get when you forget.

rex wrote

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Never been on any "meds"...

Therein lies the problem.

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Just a note of trivial interest - some of the folks here who have advised others to "read the Bible", "Catch up on what it actually says", are treading on very treacherous ground. A couple folks that get that "advice" from time time by no-doubt well meaning religionists are known be me to in fact have considerable background in objective study of the Bible (in all its forms, interpretations, and evolutions), in theology, in comparative religion, in philosophy, in history, and in logic.

At the risk of seeming repetitive, I'll say again powerful, well thought arguments for religionist viewpoint, largely devoid of internal reference, circular reasoning, and anecdote, even arguments for Christian viewpoint, can be made - over the ages plentifully have been made. To this point in this discussion, those arguments have not been even referenced, let alone presented. In regard specifically to the would-be champions of the Christian viewpoint participating in this discussion so far, all they have brought to the discussion is internal reference, circular reasoning, and anecdote. What meets failure in this discussion is not the Christian viewpoint, but the manner of its presentation and defense.

In short, the pro-Christians here simply have not made their case, but rather they persist in exemplifying and confirming the primary weakness of the case they attempt to press. They condemn their own argument.

And honestly, I expect that not to change (though it comes to mind that Neo and Thalion might surprise me).

As an aside, its interesting - if somewhat dismaying - to see anger, name-calling, and label-slinging enter into the discussion, as so often it has, and to note both the instigators and the willing participants. Real headshaking, "sighhhhhhh" stuff, IMO. But then, mebbe thats just me.

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Rex, I am glad you are still on the board; I really am. But you should know by now that Frank is not given to the acceptance of mystical interpretations.

And, the truth is, I am not either. The bible was not meant to be a book of esoteric incantations.

It is a straightforward message to man about why we have war and crime and sickness and death and what God intends to do about it. It contains instruction for us to protect ourselves from the consequences of sinful behavior and has a blueprint for surviving God's final judgement. The battle of Armageddon, remember, is not a war between the nations, it is a war between the nations and God. (See Daniel 2:44)

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au1929 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

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Take your meds, Rex. You know how you get when you forget.
rex wrote

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Never been on any "meds"...

Therein lies the problem.

Yea, I should be on drugs like you... hoot!

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neologist wrote:

Rex, I am glad you are still on the board; I really am. But you should know by now that Frank is not given to the acceptance of mystical interpretations.

And, the truth is, I am not either. The bible was not meant to be a book of esoteric incantations.

It is a straightforward message to man about why we have war and crime and sickness and death and what God intends to do about it. It contains instruction for us to protect ourselves from the consequences of sinful behavior and has a blueprint for surviving God's final judgement. The battle of Armageddon, remember, is not a war between the nations, it is a war between the nations and God. (See Daniel 2:44)

And it also gives some interesting advice for how to deal with the realities and consequences of war.

At Deuteronomy 20:10, for instance, your god suggests:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you."

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"...but the women and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth plunder you may take as your booty..." Spoken like a true sexual bigot.

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Check.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

neologist wrote:
Rex, I am glad you are still on the board; I really am. But you should know by now that Frank is not given to the acceptance of mystical interpretations.

And, the truth is, I am not either. The bible was not meant to be a book of esoteric incantations.

It is a straightforward message to man about why we have war and crime and sickness and death and what God intends to do about it. It contains instruction for us to protect ourselves from the consequences of sinful behavior and has a blueprint for surviving God's final judgement. The battle of Armageddon, remember, is not a war between the nations, it is a war between the nations and God. (See Daniel 2:44)

And it also gives some interesting advice for how to deal with the realities and consequences of war.

At Deuteronomy 20:10, for instance, your god suggests:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you."

First offer terms of peace.... did you read over that?

If not week later they conquer you and make you their slaves.

I suppose you just wait till; the heathen comes knocking on your door...

Deuteronomy 20:10
10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. 11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

Comments:
Tributaries are far from slaves, they pay taxes or tribute which was customary at the time.

You do not take into consideration that most attackers never even offered peace... for instance, the Babylonians, did they offer peace as an option? They slaughtered the men and women of Judea and Israel. They took of the booty of the Hebrews, defiled their temples and several hundred years of slavery.

Yet, I suppose you think the Babylonians were fine outstanding people...

You are full of slanted politics... Frank. These were not only kept to match the severity of their (the Hebrews) enemies of the time but they acted as a deterrent for their enemy...

I can't expect you to understand anything like that...

If God was such a "barbarian" why set any restrictions at all on war? I sure you will not adequately answer that question...

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cicerone imposter wrote:

"...but the women and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth plunder you may take as your booty..." Spoken like a true sexual bigot.

It takes one to know one...

So you are implying in your "twisted" logic that after defeating a hostile male dominated army that they kill the woman and children? Because not to do so would be sexist...

Look at who is barbaric... I can't believe you...

lum de dumb dumb...

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RexRed wrote:

First offer terms of peace.... did you read over that?

Yup. Did you?

Here is the entire of that first part: "When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace. If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you, all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.

Quote:

If not week later they conquer you and make you their slaves.

No...if not...you conquer them and put all the men to the sword....and enslave all the women and children.

Can you read?

The god of the Bible is a pathetic god, Rex....because it is painfully obvious that what the god is supposed to have said is merely the kind of thing the ancient Hebrews wanted said.

The best guess that can be made is that they invented the god....and put their ideas into its mouth.

Try to wake up.

Smell the coffee.

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Well, i just made a cup of Columbian coffee, and it smells wonderful. Don't smell no deities, no dancing pin-head angels, no Lord of Hosts . . . but i do smell damn fine coffee.

God in her infinite wisdom created this entire multiverse so that i could enjoy this cup of coffee. Ain't god a sweetheart?

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Rex, I don't expect you to believe anything I say. Your belief in the bible god tells me enough. LOL

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Rex, your take on the history and practice of ancient warfare lacks a bit - like any foundation. A scholarly glance at the subject should prove illuminating. For an overview, I recommend:

History Begins at Sumer, Kramer, S. N.

The Sumerians, Kramer, S. N.

Ancient Iraq, Roux, G.

Ancient Mesopotamia, Oppenheim, A. L. and Reiner, E.

Ancient Armies of the Middle East, Wise, T.

In the event you find yourself fascinated, I can offer a bibliography consisting of hundreds of books, articles, papers, and commentaries relating specifically. Just lemme know.

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timberlandko wrote:

Rex, your take on the history and practice of ancient warfare lacks a bit - like any foundation. A scholarly glance at the subject should prove illuminating. For an overview, I recommend:

History Begins at Sumer, Kramer, S. N.

The Sumerians, Kramer, S. N.

Ancient Iraq, Roux, G.

Ancient Mesopotamia, Oppenheim, A. L. and Reiner, E.

Ancient Armies of the Middle East, Wise, T.

In the event you find yourself fascinated, I can offer a bibliography consisting of hundreds of books, articles, papers, and commentaries relating specifically. Just lemme know.

Other than Christianity I have found the Babylonians of interest.. mostly their religion but not so much their war tactics...

I am always up for a good read in history...

As for God's war tactics in history, by today's standards they are harsh but by yesterdays standards they were rather civilized.

Frank expects 20th century standards from a small peculiar Hebrew tribe living in constant combat the desert.

I read a good book called "written in stone" but it dealt with kings linages and everyday life in Babylon.

also

http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/default.htm

this book tells it all...

I have owned it for over 20 years and have read it from cover to cover.

and it is free... Smile

it is a hard read though...

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[quote="RexRed]Frank expects 20th century standards from a small peculiar Hebrew tribe living in constant combat the desert.[/quote]

No I don't. NOT AT ALL.

I expect exactly what I see in the Bible from that small, peculiar Hebrew tribe living in constant combat in the desert.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECT OF THEM.

I just don't expect a god....supposedly the god of everyone....to come and encourage this kind of thing.

The Bible makes perfect sense....if it is essentially a book of fiction....the work of a bunch of ancient Hebrew scholars incorporating an early history of their tribe into a mythology. The Bible makes perfect sense if the god contained in it is a god invented by these ancient Hebrews.

The Bible makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL...if it is taken as the word of a god who created everything we see and know about....and who came to the Hebrews and told them they were his favorite people in the entire universe....and who, fortunately, told them that they could do all the things they were doing.

So get off your bullshyt, Rex.

Don't pretend that I am looking to impose 20th century standards on an ancient people....because that is simply not so and you know it.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

No I don't. NOT AT ALL.

I expect exactly what I see in the Bible from that small, peculiar Hebrew tribe living in constant combat in the desert.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I EXPECT OF THEM.

I just don't expect a god....supposedly the god of everyone....to come and encourage this kind of thing.

The Bible makes perfect sense....if it is essentially a book of fiction....the work of a bunch of ancient Hebrew scholars incorporating an early history of their tribe into a mythology. The Bible makes perfect sense if the god contained in it is a god invented by these ancient Hebrews.

The Bible makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL...if it is taken as the word of a god who created everything we see and know about....and who came to the Hebrews and told them they were his favorite people in the entire universe....and who, fortunately, told them that they could do all the things they were doing.

So get off your bullshyt, Rex.

Don't pretend that I am looking to impose 20th century standards on an ancient people....because that is simply not so and you know it.

I disagree Frank,

I did not live in those times and I was not God with the foreknowledge to know what the future needs... But you profess to know that God could not possibly be right in his judgement. I trust God's judgement and I also realize it was subjective to the times of the past.

You cannot assume yesterdays standards were wrong when you are not God and you do not know every possible outcome...

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You mean like homophobia and approval of slaves? LOL

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Which Religion is the One True Religion?

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