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Which Religion is the One True Religion?

 
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2005 07:38 pm
Numbers 10:9
And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the LORD your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies.

1Corinthians 14:8
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2005 07:54 pm
Talk about a timely article, this one fits the bill.* In January 2002, a USA TODAY/Gallup poll showed that almost half of American adults do not consider themselves religious. In 1999, 54% said they considered themselves religious; that number had shrunk to 50% in 2002. A full third (33%) described themselves as "spiritual but not religious," an increase of 3% over three years. Ten percent said they regarded themselves as neither spiritual nor religious.

* According to an American Religious Identification Survey conducted by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York in 2001, the most dramatic demographic shift in religious identification is the number of Americans saying they do not follow any organized religion, increasing from 8% (about 14.3 million people) in 1990 to 14.1% (29.4 million) in 2001. During the same period, the number of Americans identifying themselves as Christians shrank from 86.2% to 76.5%, a reduction of nearly 10 percent. If the trend holds, Christians will be outnumbered by non-Christians in America by 2042.

* The Barna Group, a Christian polling and research organization, commented in an April 2005 report that "Despite the media frenzy surrounding the influence of evangelical Christians during the 2004 presidential election, the new study indicates that evangelicals remain just 7% of the adult population. That number has not changed since the Barna Group began measuring the size of the evangelical public in 1994."

The fact that evangelical Christians are heavily outnumbered by Americans declaring no religious affiliation may come as a shock, considering the prominence of evangelical activists in the press and their recent influence on society. After the last presidential election, some analysts attributed the winning edge of President Bush's victory to the mobilization of evangelical voters in the so-called "red states." (Bush's final popular vote margin over John Kerry was 2.5%.) Their social perspectives and political agenda also get substantial and continuing coverage in the media, particularly in regard to such hot-button issues as abortion, gay rights, stem-cell research, and the teaching of creationism vs. evolution in the public schools. Yet as the data above suggest, the actual number of evangelicals is small and has been constant for over a decade, even as the overall number of Christians steadily declines and a substantial and growing proportion of the population prefers to be identified as "spiritual but not religious."

There are at least three major factors contributing to this dramatic disparity between popular perceptions of America's spiritual evolution and what is really going on. First is the media's failure to pay attention to the actual shifts of belief that are occurring quietly behind the more easily reported controversies that involve religion. The second factor is simply that evangelicals have a mission to spread their creed. Over the last decade or so they have done an increasingly effective job of enhancing their media profile and their political clout, even if the effect on the number of people espousing their cause is negligible.

Third, the "mission" of people who are turning away from organized religion toward a more individual style of spiritual practice could well be described as the polar opposite of evangelism. Instead of trying to convert others to their beliefs, the new spiritualists are questioning their own beliefs, and privately experimenting with new perspectives.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2005 08:16 pm
Setanta wrote:
Well, i just made a cup of Columbian coffee, and it smells wonderful. Don't smell no deities, no dancing pin-head angels, no Lord of Hosts . . . but i do smell damn fine coffee.

God in her infinite wisdom created this entire multiverse so that i could enjoy this cup of coffee. Ain't god a sweetheart?
Leave it to Setanta to shock us with reality. There may very well be no existence without coffee.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2005 08:19 pm
Ain't that somet'n. I believe in my morning coffee much more than many people believe in morning prayer. According to the coffee shop I go to regularly, and the Starbucks across the street, it seems coffee drinkers are common in this world.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2005 09:48 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Just a note of trivial interest - some of the folks here who have advised others to "read the Bible", "Catch up on what it actually says", are treading on very treacherous ground. A couple folks that get that "advice" from time time by no-doubt well meaning religionists are known be me to in fact have considerable background in objective study of the Bible (in all its forms, interpretations, and evolutions), in theology, in comparative religion, in philosophy, in history, and in logic.

At the risk of seeming repetitive, I'll say again powerful, well thought arguments for religionist viewpoint, largely devoid of internal reference, circular reasoning, and anecdote, even arguments for Christian viewpoint, can be made - over the ages plentifully have been made. To this point in this discussion, those arguments have not been even referenced, let alone presented. In regard specifically to the would-be champions of the Christian viewpoint participating in this discussion so far, all they have brought to the discussion is internal reference, circular reasoning, and anecdote. What meets failure in this discussion is not the Christian viewpoint, but the manner of its presentation and defense.

In short, the pro-Christians here simply have not made their case, but rather they persist in exemplifying and confirming the primary weakness of the case they attempt to press. They condemn their own argument.

And honestly, I expect that not to change (though it comes to mind that Neo and Thalion might surprise me).

As an aside, its interesting - if somewhat dismaying - to see anger, name-calling, and label-slinging enter into the discussion, as so often it has, and to note both the instigators and the willing participants. Real headshaking, "sighhhhhhh" stuff, IMO. But then, mebbe thats just me.


Although I've seen you try to make this point previously, I'm not sure I would put much stock in the "pro-Christian" arguments you cite, Timber, since you don't even seem to believe them yourself.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2005 11:01 pm
Yeah, what you said, real.

And a question for CI:
What does the turning away from organized religion prove about the existence of God, especially since it was foretold in the bible?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 12:42 am
New protestant religions are on the rise, mass churches I think they call them, and Jesus' name is still invoked at least once a day on A2k... Smile
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 12:44 am
Results 1 - 10 of about 23,400,000 for "jesus" on google
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 02:05 am
real life wrote:
Although I've seen you try to make this point previously, I'm not sure I would put much stock in the "pro-Christian" arguments you cite, Timber, since you don't even seem to believe them yourself.

My perception of the arguments I referenced is immaterial. The point is that while such arguments exist, some many, many centuries old, no one in this discussion has presented a proper, validly structured and presented argument for the religionist, let alone the Christianist proposition. Conversely, properly structured and presented, heavily supported counter-argument to the broader religionist proposition and the more narrowly delineated component thereof comprising the Christianist proposition has been plentiful in this discussion, some of it - that based on documented history, for instance (but far from alone), has been compelling. To put it bluntly, the religionist argument as presented in this discussion so far has been for the most part pathetic.

RexRed wrote:
Results 1 - 10 of about 23,400,000 for "jesus" on google

Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 42,600,000 for fraud and more to the point, Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 73,100,000 for Santa

(cheapshot, I know ... but I just couldn't let the straight line go unanswered)
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 08:01 am
getting back to the original question which is the true religion. If there is one I would say Judaism since without it there would be no Christianity or Islam. In reading the posts on religion I came to realize how much Christianity leans upon the old testament {Torah} and claims it as their own.

Anyone care to give their opinion on which one and why?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 08:21 am
au1929 wrote:
getting back to the original question which is the true religion. If there is one I would say Judaism since without it there would be no Christianity or Islam. In reading the posts on religion I came to realize how much Christianity leans upon the old testament {Torah} and claims it as their own.

Anyone care to give their opinion on which one and why?
My score on belief-o-matic:
1. Orthodox Judaism (100%)
2. Islam (90%)
3. Jehovah's Witness (89%)
4. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (79%)
5. Sikhism (78%)
6. Eastern Orthodox (72%)
7. Roman Catholic (72%)
27. Secular Humanism (5%)
I'll present a strong argument for one of these when I get back from my day trip.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 11:31 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Talk about a timely article, this one fits the bill.* In January 2002, a USA TODAY/Gallup poll showed that almost half of American adults do not consider themselves religious. In 1999, 54% said they considered themselves religious; that number had shrunk to 50% in 2002. A full third (33%) described themselves as "spiritual but not religious," an increase of 3% over three years. Ten percent said they regarded themselves as neither spiritual nor religious.

* According to an American Religious Identification Survey conducted by the Graduate Center of the City University of New York in 2001, the most dramatic demographic shift in religious identification is the number of Americans saying they do not follow any organized religion, increasing from 8% (about 14.3 million people) in 1990 to 14.1% (29.4 million) in 2001. During the same period, the number of Americans identifying themselves as Christians shrank from 86.2% to 76.5%, a reduction of nearly 10 percent. If the trend holds, Christians will be outnumbered by non-Christians in America by 2042.

* The Barna Group, a Christian polling and research organization, commented in an April 2005 report that "Despite the media frenzy surrounding the influence of evangelical Christians during the 2004 presidential election, the new study indicates that evangelicals remain just 7% of the adult population. That number has not changed since the Barna Group began measuring the size of the evangelical public in 1994."

The fact that evangelical Christians are heavily outnumbered by Americans declaring no religious affiliation may come as a shock, considering the prominence of evangelical activists in the press and their recent influence on society. After the last presidential election, some analysts attributed the winning edge of President Bush's victory to the mobilization of evangelical voters in the so-called "red states." (Bush's final popular vote margin over John Kerry was 2.5%.) Their social perspectives and political agenda also get substantial and continuing coverage in the media, particularly in regard to such hot-button issues as abortion, gay rights, stem-cell research, and the teaching of creationism vs. evolution in the public schools. Yet as the data above suggest, the actual number of evangelicals is small and has been constant for over a decade, even as the overall number of Christians steadily declines and a substantial and growing proportion of the population prefers to be identified as "spiritual but not religious."

There are at least three major factors contributing to this dramatic disparity between popular perceptions of America's spiritual evolution and what is really going on. First is the media's failure to pay attention to the actual shifts of belief that are occurring quietly behind the more easily reported controversies that involve religion. The second factor is simply that evangelicals have a mission to spread their creed. Over the last decade or so they have done an increasingly effective job of enhancing their media profile and their political clout, even if the effect on the number of people espousing their cause is negligible.

Third, the "mission" of people who are turning away from organized religion toward a more individual style of spiritual practice could well be described as the polar opposite of evangelism. Instead of trying to convert others to their beliefs, the new spiritualists are questioning their own beliefs, and privately experimenting with new perspectives.


Don't get too comfortable, Imposter.

Interesting also from http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=14107

"Only about a third of Americans believe that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is a scientific theory that has been well supported by the evidence, while just as many say that it is just one of many theories and has not been supported by the evidence. The rest say they don't know enough to say. Forty-five percent of Americans also believe that God created human beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago. A third of Americans are biblical literalists who believe that the Bible is the actual word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word."

How do these numbers coincide with the Barna findings?

Well one possible reason might be the use of the term "religious". There are large numbers of Christians to whom the term carries a negative connotation, implying staleness in their spiritual walk.

Many believers that I have met and known over the years would bristle at the description of themselves as "religious", but they are in church three times a week.

The preferred term these people use of themselves is "spiritual".

Your article mentioned the Gallup findings but perhaps misinterpreted their meaning, as the additional Gallup findings regarding belief in the Bible and belief in evolution may illustrate.
0 Replies
 
sunlover
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 12:01 pm
To find the real "true" religion some mass reading of all material written by biblical scholars about the first 4 centuries would be required.

Anyone who knows anything about spiritual teachings will know why people would never divuldge what they learn "in secret."

The "true" religion is closest to:

Buddhism
Hindu
Judaism

and the "true" teachings that Jesus taught his disciples in secret that exists, also, in the above three.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 12:14 pm
real, I'm not comfortable or discomfortable about that article. I just posted it as a FYI. People will evaluate it's merit all by themselves.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 12:33 pm
sunlover wrote:
To find the real "true" religion some mass reading of all material written by biblical scholars about the first 4 centuries would be required.

Anyone who knows anything about spiritual teachings will know why people would never divuldge what they learn "in secret."

The "true" religion is closest to:

Buddhism
Hindu
Judaism

and the "true" teachings that Jesus taught his disciples in secret that exists, also, in the above three.


If people "never divuldge" what they learn "in secret"....how the hell do you know that they learned anything in secret...and what it was they learned?

Why not deal with that question rather then spewing bullshyt about stuff you are only making up....or borrowing from others who made it up.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 12:38 pm
Aren't secrets wonderful? We don't know who said it to whom, and when it was said. LOL
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 12:43 pm
If these surveys are correct....and if the question includes something along the lines of:

Is there a God....and if so, what is that God like and what does that God expect of humans, if anything?...

...and a VAST MAJORITY do not respond that they are agnostic on the question...

...they ought to shytcan the survey.


On questions such as I just proposed....

...either the VAST MAJORITY of Americans acknowledge that they do not know the answer and the evidence available is too ambiguous for a meaningful guess...

...or we are a bunch of ignorant dipshyts.


Oh, by the way....I missed a goddam putt of less than two feet today!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 12:58 pm
Ruined your whole day? You must've had some good shots! Wink
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 02:51 pm
Shot an 85...a good score for me.

I was just putting my previous comments into perspective.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2005 04:01 pm
sunlover wrote:
To find the real "true" religion some mass reading of all material written by biblical scholars about the first 4 centuries would be required.

Anyone who knows anything about spiritual teachings will know why people would never divuldge what they learn "in secret."

The "true" religion is closest to:

Buddhism
Hindu
Judaism

and the "true" teachings that Jesus taught his disciples in secret that exists, also, in the above three.
Priests have used the hokum of a secret knowledge to oppress mankind for centuries. The truth is not secret; it is readily discernable to all.
0 Replies
 
 

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