Which Religion is the One True Religion?

Just ran across a wonderful quote of Hermann Goering made after the war, which I had forgotten about, but which i consider very germaine here:

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

"Just how terrified of the unknown....and the boogymen....does one have to be to swollow this nonsense....and go through the contortions these poor dupe go through in order to defend it?"

Frank, As I read your post above, it dawned on me why so many Americans follow this administration's actions in Iraq and our prisoners. They are all terrified of the unknown - boogymen who are ready to bomb New York and/or San Francisco - or their little rural town in the middle of North Dakota.

c.i., It looks like a good time to replay this one.

Setanta wrote:

Just ran across a wonderful quote of Hermann Goering made after the war, which I had forgotten about, but which i consider very germaine here:

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

Frank Apisa wrote:

But it is entertaining to watch a herd of sheep....and there is a degree of amuzement to be had watching you folk.

I guess I can thank you for that.

God loves a thankful heart

Sometimes statements such as that begin to become Ad Hominem Circumstantial: Some people preach religion because they follow it blindly, therefore religion is wrong. Granted, I realize that this might not necessarily your particular problem with religion, but it is with many people, and your statement sounded similar.

I was addressing cicerone's comment on blind followers.

Weekly New York meet??

As a New Jersey resident who still has another year to wait before he can drive, I'll unfortunately have to decline lol. Thanks though.

I'll stick to my Hegelian/quantum mechanical view of the world in which God and reality are only in-substantially "real", "cut up" as you will Open for debate though!

real life wrote:

I think he would say he is anti-slavery, based on the previous discussion. However, being Agnostic, he technically should not be able to say he KNOWS it is wrong.

I do not consider opposition to things like slavery (or lying, cheating, murder, stealing)....to be "moral absolutes."

I think society...in order to function...can proscibe certain activities because they threaten the orderly functioning of society.

Allowing people to lie, cheat, steal, murder, or arbitrarily grab other humans and place them into involuntary servitude DO threaten the orderly functioning of society...so I do speak out against them and I do suggest it is the right of society to proscibe them by sanctions.

Frank Apisa wrote:

real life wrote:

I think he would say he is anti-slavery, based on the previous discussion. However, being Agnostic, he technically should not be able to say he KNOWS it is wrong.

I do not consider opposition to things like slavery (or lying, cheating, murder, stealing)....to be "moral absolutes."

I think society...in order to function...can proscibe certain activities because they threaten the orderly functioning of society.

Allowing people to lie, cheat, steal, murder, or arbitrarily grab other humans and place them into involuntary servitude DO threaten the orderly functioning of society...so I do speak out against them and I do suggest it is the right of society to proscibe them by sanctions.

If prohibitions against murder , stealing etc are not moral Absolutes and they are man made to keep order, if men decide that they are ok after all and legalize them, does that make them "right"?

Is legalized theft "right" Frank? Is legalized murder "right"?

Sometimes statements such as that begin to become Ad Hominem Circumstantial: Some people preach religion because they follow it blindly, therefore religion is wrong. Granted, I realize that this might not necessarily your particular problem with religion, but it is with many people, and your statement sounded similar.

real life wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

real life wrote:

I think he would say he is anti-slavery, based on the previous discussion. However, being Agnostic, he technically should not be able to say he KNOWS it is wrong.

I do not consider opposition to things like slavery (or lying, cheating, murder, stealing)....to be "moral absolutes."

I think society...in order to function...can proscibe certain activities because they threaten the orderly functioning of society.

Allowing people to lie, cheat, steal, murder, or arbitrarily grab other humans and place them into involuntary servitude DO threaten the orderly functioning of society...so I do speak out against them and I do suggest it is the right of society to proscibe them by sanctions.

If prohibitions against murder , stealing etc are not moral Absolutes and they are man made to keep order, if men decide that they are ok after all and legalize them, does that make them "right"?

Is legalized theft "right" Frank? Is legalized murder "right"?

Open your mind, Life. You won't hurt yourself.

Don't think in terms of "right" and "wrong" on issues like this.

Conduct is either effective for an orderly society…or it is a drag on it. So we keep or proscribe conduct as the situation fits.


No society can logically legalize theft or murder....and in fact, no society IS ABLE to do so...because the definitions of theft and murder include the fact that they are "illegal." Theft is the "illegal" taking of another's property. Murder is the "illegal" taking of a life.

And since you apparently haven't noticed, society DOES allow for the taking of property and the taking of life...and "YES" a case can be made that unless proscribed, it is "right" in some way.

So you really don't know what you are talking about…and your analogy is silly.