If jesus is god, how does god/jesus raise himself up from the dead? If god/jesus raises himself up from the dead, he's not dead. Maybe you don't understand what the term "dead" really means.
Not only are there no moral absolutes, other than in the minds of those who benefit, or believe they benefit from a "moral" system--the absolutism alleged for morality is contradicted all the time.
Case in point: Thou shalt no kill.
The vicious, adolescent, arbitrary and capricous god of the bible violates this one all the time. And time and again he/she/it encouraged the Hebrews to do the same. This moral absolute makes no provision for self-defense. So, the adherents of this particular brand of superstition trot out all sorts of specious arguments, usually along the line of this being a poor translation (it is not), and that it should read: "Thou shalt not murder." Which is precisely what the Hebrews do when they get to Canaan--they slaughter everyone who stands in their way.
I've always believed in an ethical standard for each individual, to which they make their best effort to conform. I support the rule of law and the social contract. Morality, however, is a stench in my nostrils, and i turn away from that most disgusting brand of hypocricy whenever confronted by it.
cicerone imposter wrote:If jesus is god, how does god/jesus raise himself up from the dead? If god/jesus raises himself up from the dead, he's not dead. Maybe you don't understand what the term "dead" really means.
Jesus explained it very symbollicaly.
God has no beginning nor an end...
Thats why hes said to be immortal.
To realize this in ourselves(conscience), put this particularity (immortallity) to our level and reach.
Duality(of the mind) is the barrier that obstructs this realisation.
Frank Apisa wrote:RexRed wrote:Maybe Frank instead of being part of the question you can become part of the answer...
I already am part of the answer, Rex. You simply are unwilling to see that.
Do the same contorting, distorting, and rationalizing that allows Thunder to get through the day....if you must.
We pity you for it....but it is your choice.
Frank I think you provoke answers but you are not directly giving them...
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:If jesus is god, how does god/jesus raise himself up from the dead? If god/jesus raises himself up from the dead, he's not dead. Maybe you don't understand what the term "dead" really means.
Jesus explained it very symbollicaly.
God has no beginning nor an end...
Thats why hes said to be immortal.
To realize this in ourselves(conscience), put this particularity (immortallity) to our level and reach.
Duality(of the mind) is the barrier that obstructs this realisation.
cicerone how about these ones...?
When God gave Jesus grace he gave himself something he already had.. And when Jesus was praying to God in the garden he was praying to himself... And when he said not my will but thine be done again this indicates a split personality... And Mary is of course the mother of God... This trinity gets more silly the closer you look at it. Oh yea and Jesus was not only the son of Mary but also he was his own father... And yes how can a dead man get up on his own? 63 time Jesus is called the son of God in the Bible not once is he called God the son... The Bible also says that in the very end that the son also shall be subject unto the father? How can Jesus be "co-equal" with God if he is in the very end made subject unto God?
1Co 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
explain these...
Peace with God
Setanta wrote:Not only are there no moral absolutes, other than in the minds of those who benefit, or believe they benefit from a "moral" system--the absolutism alleged for morality is contradicted all the time.
Case in point: Thou shalt no kill.
The vicious, adolescent, arbitrary and capricous god of the bible violates this one all the time. And time and again he/she/it encouraged the Hebrews to do the same. This moral absolute makes no provision for self-defense. So, the adherents of this particular brand of superstition trot out all sorts of specious arguments, usually along the line of this being a poor translation (it is not), and that it should read: "Thou shalt not murder." Which is precisely what the Hebrews do when they get to Canaan--they slaughter everyone who stands in their way.
I've always believed in an ethical standard for each individual, to which they make their best effort to conform. I support the rule of law and the social contract. Morality, however, is a stench in my nostrils, and i turn away from that most disgusting brand of hypocricy whenever confronted by it.
Murder cannot be justified... The Hebrews also lost their kingdom to the Babylonians
As predictable as clockwork.
neologist wrote:I'm not with you on this, Rex. Sorry.
What you disagree or you do not understand? What is the rub?
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away [heaven and earth]; behold, all things are become new.
Setanta wrote:Not only are there no moral absolutes, other than in the minds of those who benefit, or believe they benefit from a "moral" system--the absolutism alleged for morality is contradicted all the time.
Case in point: Thou shalt no kill.
The vicious, adolescent, arbitrary and capricous god of the bible violates this one all the time. And time and again he/she/it encouraged the Hebrews to do the same. This moral absolute makes no provision for self-defense. So, the adherents of this particular brand of superstition trot out all sorts of specious arguments, usually along the line of this being a poor translation (it is not), and that it should read: "Thou shalt not murder." Which is precisely what the Hebrews do when they get to Canaan--they slaughter everyone who stands in their way.
I've always believed in an ethical standard for each individual, to which they make their best effort to conform. I support the rule of law and the social contract. Morality, however, is a stench in my nostrils, and i turn away from that most disgusting brand of hypocricy whenever confronted by it.
Good morning Setanta; The correct English translation of the commandment would be 'You must not murder.' That there was a distinction between killing and murder was made clear by the existence of cities of refuge, where the unintentional manslayer could escape the avenger of blood.
Your loathing of the Jews' conquest of Canaan is duly noted, as is my loathing of the child sacrifice practiced by the Canaanite priests. (I realize the foregoing is not a sufficient answer. More later)
neologist wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:God sacrificed his son? You mean to tell us jesus didn't have free will? OMG, even god contradicts himself! LOL
Here's something even more shocking CI. Have you kept up on your heart medication? Promise me you won't die laughing.
Jesus actually wanted to endure the sacrifice. Can you believe it? Oh, excuse me. I should never have asked.
I would like to see the scripture on this one... If Jesus wanted to be crucified he would not have asked God to take the cup from him. Instead he would have thanked God for the cup and his will would have been in harmony with God. Not my will but thine be done... This also shows that God and Jesus have separate will, which rules out that God violated Jesus' free will...
RexRed wrote:neologist wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:God sacrificed his son? You mean to tell us jesus didn't have free will? OMG, even god contradicts himself! LOL
Here's something even more shocking CI. Have you kept up on your heart medication? Promise me you won't die laughing.
Jesus actually wanted to endure the sacrifice. Can you believe it? Oh, excuse me. I should never have asked.
I would like to see the scripture on this one... If Jesus wanted to be crucified he would not have asked God to take the cup from him. Instead he would have thanked God for the cup and his will would have been in harmony with God. Not my will but thine be done... This also shows that God and Jesus have separate will, which rules out that God violated Jesus' free will...
Just exactly what was the cup Jesus was referring to? Was it the painful death he was about to endure or was it the degrading charges of blasphemy and sedition soon to be levied upon him? He could have escaped at any time; remember?
RexRed wrote:neologist wrote:I'm not with you on this, Rex. Sorry.
What you disagree or you do not understand? What is the rub?
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away [heaven and earth]; behold, all things are become new.
You are stretching here:
Quote:Comment:
There are a new heaven and earth and we Christians were raised 2000 years ago in the body of Christ. We were judged with Jesus Christ, this is why we are now free from law. We died and were reseurected and we now are free... Christ lived a hell so we could live in heaven.
And in a few other places.
neologist wrote:RexRed wrote:neologist wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:God sacrificed his son? You mean to tell us jesus didn't have free will? OMG, even god contradicts himself! LOL
Here's something even more shocking CI. Have you kept up on your heart medication? Promise me you won't die laughing.
Jesus actually wanted to endure the sacrifice. Can you believe it? Oh, excuse me. I should never have asked.
I would like to see the scripture on this one... If Jesus wanted to be crucified he would not have asked God to take the cup from him. Instead he would have thanked God for the cup and his will would have been in harmony with God. Not my will but thine be done... This also shows that God and Jesus have separate will, which rules out that God violated Jesus' free will...
Just exactly what was the cup Jesus was referring to? Was it the painful death he was about to endure or was it the degrading charges of blasphemy and sedition soon to be levied upon him? He could have escaped at any time; remember?
Considering the moment after the prayer he was taken into Roman custody and sent to his death it is more likely that he "in context" was talking about the suffering he was immediately to endure... Also, if suffering was not a problem with Jesus, God would not have taken him aside and shown him the "glory" to come to help him endure... Jeus could endure the pain because he held in his mind a picture of the glory to come...
neologist wrote:RexRed wrote:neologist wrote:I'm not with you on this, Rex. Sorry.
What you disagree or you do not understand? What is the rub?
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away [heaven and earth]; behold, all things are become new.
You are stretching here:
Quote:Comment:
There are a new heaven and earth and we Christians were raised 2000 years ago in the body of Christ. We were judged with Jesus Christ, this is why we are now free from law. We died and were reseurected and we now are free... Christ lived a hell so we could live in heaven.
And in a few other places.
Maybe I did not word that the best but I stand behind the basic gist... Where it says he is a new creature... If my recollection is right I believe the word "creature" in the verse above is the word "creation"... We are a new "creation"... think about that... old things are passed away...
Yes I just checked the word it is the word creation not creature...
cicerone imposter wrote:If jesus is god, how does god/jesus raise himself up from the dead? If god/jesus raises himself up from the dead, he's not dead. Maybe you don't understand what the term "dead" really means.
OMG! you've discovered a contradiction between christians! Whatever shall we do?
We must certainly conclude the bible cannot be God's word. Or, what?
Perhaps that is why we are admonished to 'keep on seeking.'
RexRed wrote: Considering the moment after the prayer he was taken into Roman custody and sent to his death it is more likely that he "in context" was talking about the suffering he was immediately to endure... Also, if suffering was not a problem with Jesus, God would not have taken him aside and shown him the "glory" to come to help him endure... Jeus could endure the pain because he held in his mind a picture of the glory to come...
You've helped a lot with the argument against the trinity, but have forgotten an important event: Jesus' arrest was for him to face the sanhedrin; the Romans could have cared less about him until Pilate was provoked into ordering his execution.
I have no doubt that Jesus eschewed physical pain. But, remember he refused a drink which would have dulled his senses.
One important reason he underwent this punishment was to prove Satan a liar when he claimed he could turn any of God's creatures against him.
All that was necessary for him to provide an exchange for Adam was for hm to die.
F****g fairtales that are perverting our world.
How can grown people possibly buy into some of this shyt?
Just how terrified of the unknown....and the boogymen....does one have to be to swollow this nonsense....and go through the contortions these poor dupe go through in order to defend it?
If it were just them....living their silliness...
...I would not care on whit.
But as a conglomerate....they present a danger to mankind that cannot be ignored.
It unnecessarily compliments you poor fools to compare you with children. Most children have more skeptisim than you. The best comparison is the one you furnish on your own....to sheep. You are frightened, herded sheep.
But it is entertaining to watch a herd of sheep....and there is a degree of amuzement to be had watching you folk.
I guess I can thank you for that.
"Just how terrified of the unknown....and the boogymen....does one have to be to swollow this nonsense....and go through the contortions these poor dupe go through in order to defend it?"
Frank, As I read your post above, it dawned on me why so many Americans follow this administration's actions in Iraq and our prisoners. They are all terrified of the unknown - boogymen who are ready to bomb New York and/or San Francisco - or their little rural town in the middle of North Dakota.
Frank Apisa wrote:But it is entertaining to watch a herd of sheep....and there is a degree of amuzement to be had watching you folk.
I guess I can thank you for that.
God loves a thankful heart
