Nice post there EPW. Long, but you held my attention the whole way.
I love your book recommendation. It's funny, one of my favourite books on writing music is also an "Idiot's Guide" (although I can't remember whether it's for "complete" idiots or not! )
Setanta,
Good points, as usual. I guess more posts from this source will determine whether the above is original...
_____
And yes. Caste. As my friend puts it, this is Hinduism's big nasty Unmentionable problem.
Caste. Untouchables. No chance, regardless of how hard you work, to change your circumstance in life. No marrying much across caste.
Untouchables--outcasts of society--born into out of no fault of your own? Undefendable, IMHO.
EPW,
The Caste System is the repugnant part of Hinduism to many of us.
What do you have to say about caste?
I like a lot about Hinduism. But for me personally, caste makes it all fall apart. One can be born as an Untouchable, basically an outcast of society, based on their actions in past lives? And no matter how good they are in any way in this life, they are damned to that? It seems very close to racism. In fact, some argue it is a form of racism, as certain ethnic groups dominate the Untouchable classes...
What purpose do past lives serve? If we have had them, then why can't remember anything from them?
neologist wrote:headofthefield wrote:Neo, we all know the Federation will live strong and the Klingons will be the backbone of the Alpha Quadrant. Oh yeah, the Romulans will always be liars and cheats.
Alas, eons of galactic history will be written as I lie incarcerated in this Romulan hell. Oh, if only my coordinates were known. . .
Neo, Only by understanding the Force will you know that your excape can take place. Control you feelings and let the Force flow through you. In time you will understand your abilities and be able to control them. But be carefull, for "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering." Be mindful of the force. And may the Force be with you.
Hello my fellow inhabitants, I'm sorry you were hoping I would go away, but I cant, I work for YAH, I am no spammer, just a truth seeker. a funny thing happened to me when I went to a different board where most minds were open and everyone worked together to find answers, I'll probably spend some time there in the future. Meanwhile I had made some promises and I intend on keeping them.
I am really sorry Eorl, Timbo, Brandon, Extra, and Santanta truly I am for speaking down to you all and I will try harder to not hurt anyones feelings or trample anyone with the high horse I jumped on.
PUG
Below please find the beginning of a series of proof sources I will be bringing you. No source or research is beyond reproach, input from the researchers pre-conceived predictions may also have an impact on or a significant influence on controlled laboratory experiments. The most reliable evidence still seems to be; several observers monitoring the experiment or examining the findings, and submitting blind conclusions independently for further analysis.
I am working on Brandin2000's request for source as well. And as soon as possible I will submit same.
Can someone share how to post jpeg photos, I would like to put up the actual cave paintings as well.
Have a good time,
If this is not adequate I am very busy and I will do whatever I can to accomodate, It just may take some time. OK?
Thanks
High in the mountains of BayanKara-Ula, on the boarders of China and Tibet - a team of archeologists were conducting a very detailed routine survey of a series of interlinked caves. Their interests had been excited by the discovery of lines of neatly arranged graves which contained the skeletons of what must have been a strange race of human beings; strange because they had unnaturally spindly bodies and large, overdeveloped heads. At first, it had been thought that the caves had been the home of a hitherto unknown species of ape. But as the leader of the team - the Chinese archeologist, Professor Chi Pu Tei - pointed out, "Who ever heard of apes burying each other?" It was while studying the skeletons that one of the team stumbled on a large, round stone disk, half buried in the dust on the floor of the cave. The team gathered round the discovery, turning it this way and that. It looked, absurdly, like a kind of 'Stone Age Gramophone record'. There was a hole in the center and a fine, spiral groove radiated to the rim. Closer inspection, however, showed that the groove was, in fact, a continuous spiraling line of closely written characters. The object was a 'record' ... in more ways then one. Only nobody at the time - the year was 1938 - possessed the key to its incredible message. The disc was labeled and filed away among other finds in the area. Even those who knew of its existence knew nothing of its meaning.
Many experts tried to translate the hieroglyphs in the 20 years the disc languished in Peking. They all failed. It was not until another professor - Dr. Tsum Um Nui - broke the code and started to decipher the 'speaking grooves' that the extraordinary implications of the disc were realized. Realized, that is, only by only a select few. The outside world remained in ignorance. For the professor's conclusions on the meaning of the disc were so shattering that they were officially suppressed. The Peking Academy of Pre-History forbade him to publish his findings. Two years later, in 1965, the professor and four of his colleagues were finally given permission to reveal their theory. It appeared under the long- winded but intriguing title, "The Grooved Script concerning Space-ships which, as recorded on the Discs, landed on Earth 12,000 years ago". The 'records' - 716 of the grooved discs were later uncovered in the same caves - told an astonishing story of a 'space probe' by the inhabitants of another planet which came to grief in the Bayan-Kara-Ula mountain range. The strange, spiral script told how the peaceful intentions of the 'aliens' had been misunderstood and how many of them were hunted down and killed by members of the Ham tribe, who lived in the neighboring caves.
According to Tsum Um Nui, one of the lines of the hieroglyphs read, "The Dropas came down from the clouds in their aircraft. Our men, women and children hid in the caves ten times before sunrise. When at last they understood the sign language of the Dropas, they realized that the newcomers had peaceful intentions...". Another section expressed 'regret' by the Ham tribe that the aliens' spaceship had crash-landed in such a remote and inaccessible mountains and that there had been no way to building a new one to enable Dropas to return to their own planet. In the years since the discovery of the first disc, archeologists and anthropologists had learned more about the isolated Bayan-Kara-Ula area. And much of the information seemed to corroborate the bizarre story recorded on the discs. Legend still preserved in the area spoke of small, gaunt, yellow faced men who 'came from the clouds, long, long ago'. The men had huge, bulging heads and puny bodies and were so ugly and repellent that they were hounded down by local tribesmen on horseback. Strangely, the description of the 'invaders' tallied with the skeletons originally discovered in the caves by Professor Chi Pu Tei. On the walls of the caves themselves archeologists had uncovered crude pictures of the rising Sun, the Moon, unidentifiable stars and the Earth... all joined together by lines of pea-sized dots. Along with the discs, the cave drawings had been dated around 12,000 years old.
The cave area was still inhabited by two semi-troglodyte tribes known as the Hams and the Dropas, themselves extremely odd in appearance. The frail and stunted tribesmen averaged only about five feet in height and were neither typically Chinese nor Tibetan. "Their racial back-ground," said one expert, "is a mystery." But even with the publications of Professor Tsum Um Nui's amazing translation, the story of the 'space discs' was not over. Russian scientists asked to see the discs and several were sent to Moscow for examination. They were scraped free of rock particles which had stuck to them and then put through chemical analysis. To the surprise of the scientists, they we found to contain large amounts of cobalt and other metallic substances. That was not all. When placed on a special turntable - according to Dr. Vyatcheslav Saizev, who described the experiments in the Soviet magazine Sputnik - they vibrated or 'hummed' in an unusual rhythm as though an electric charge was passing through them. Or as one scientist suggested, "as if they formed some part of an electrical circuit." At some time, they had clearly been exposed to extraordinarily high voltages.
Did the discs actually record an abortive space mission by alien astronauts 12,000 years ago? Nearly all the leading 'space speculators' - theorists like Erich von Daniken and Peter Kolosimo - believe so. For once one accepts the proposition that aliens may have already have visited earth, then it follows that some of their space-probes must have failed and the astronauts must have been destroyed.
<peeks up, looks around...waiting...the air is pregnant...silence...like the calm before the storm...eye of the hurricane>
After 3 days, HE HAS RETURNED TO LIFE!
Hi, Extra...
Listen if you guys really dont want me around here, I'll go.
PUG
Now to him who by his power working in us is able to do far more beyond anything we ask or imagine to him be glory"
I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.
which one of these quotes should civil americans follow?
I thought this debate section was religion based. I was hoping to discuss the future of spirituality. But it seems that anti religous person(s) are making this a hangout site and projecting hate, and other sins.I'm sorry this site has this kind of stuff going on here. I'm sorry the country has to have this kind of stuff going on in it. I do not believe it is all of you but a select few who wish to dispell faith. We do have freedom of belief, but we are not free to believe we are not free from : Bias, jealousy, religious persecution, bigotry, politcal curruption, and on and on.
I wish you the best Setanta. I hope you will see yourself one day as I did myself and govern yourself accordingly, I will not address your hate anylonger.
I am from an Italian Family and I grew up in Rosedale Queens (remember the Clintons back in the 70's They were hated because they were black. and Mr. Clinton is dead because of it. )And as my Angry loud family once said.
to a family member who was dating a black person
(which I wish I would have done by the way)
have a good life.
puglia wrote: ...
Below please find the beginning of a series of proof sources I will be bringing you ...
High in the mountains of BayanKara-Ula, etc
Well, Pug, the following doesn't look too good for this first of your "series of proofs".
Quote:The Caves of Bayan Kara Ula
From Loy Lawhon,
Your Guide to UFOs / Aliens
The Dropa Stones
The story of the Dropas or Dzopas is one of the strangest in all of ufology. It has been written about quite a lot, notably by Hartwig Hausdorf in his book The Chinese Roswell, (also known as The White Pyramid). Erich von Daniken also wrote about the "Dropa Stones" in a couple of his books, Gods From Outer Space and The Gold of the Gods.
The story, briefly, is this:
In the early 1960s, the Russian magazine Sputnik published an article about an archaeological find in the Bayan Kara Ula Mountains in southwest China near the Tibetan border. The story was also run by Belgian UFO Investigator and Vegetarian Universe magazines. The story of the Dropas that we read today is basically just a reworking of this original story ...
... The Investigation
Well, the lessons that I've learned from Uncle P. are not so easily forgotten, so when I again came across the story of the Dropa disks, I decided to investigate it as best I could.
The first thing that I did was to try to find the source of the original story. Hartwig Hausdorf says this in The Chinese Roswell:
"
Sputnik broke the story
. The Belgian magazine BUFOI(Belgian UFO Investigator) picked it up as well as the esoteric German publication Vegetarian Universe using not only Soviet but Japanese sources."
A few pages later, he says:
"
Dr. Vyatcheslav Saitzev, who first told the story of the alien disks of Bara Kara Ula for the Soviet Magazine Sputnik
However, in the Sources for that chapter, the oldest source he cites is a 1960 article in Russian Digest, not by Saitzev, but by V. Ritsch and M. Tschernenko, titled Were Alien Visitors on Earth?. (Note that 1960 would have been two years before Tsum Um Nui announced his translation of the disks' message.) He then cites the Vegetarian Universe article in 1962, and not until 1968 an article by Saitzev in Sputnik number 1! Von Daniken's 1970 Gods From Outer Space is the next source given.
If the confusion of where, when, and by whom the original article was published isn't bad enough, those Russian magazines were very sensationalistic, as is noted by Hausdorf. They were like Iron Curtain versions of the supermarket tabloids we see today. Not the most reliable sources of information. The German and Belgian articles were basically just reprints of the Russian one, although Hausdorf says they cited Japanese sources as well (unnamed).
The next thing that I investigated was whether I could find any mention of the names Chu Pu Tei, Tsum Um Nui, Ernst Wegener, Vyatcheslav Saitzev, Sergei Lolladoff, or Karyl Robin-Evans anywhere outside of the Dropa articles. No luck, not even with alternate spellings. Except for their mentions in connection with the Dropa story, none of these people might exist at all. Several writers mention that Tsum Um Nui is not a normal Chinese name. The one possible exception among these names is that Sungods in Exile is a real book (out of print), with Karyl Robin-Evans listed as author and David Agamon as editor. However, other investigators have been unable to find any trace of Karyl Robin-Evans in Britain and some believe the book was a work of fiction that was actually written by David Agamon. One investigator wrote Oxford asking about Lolladoff and his disk, but never received any reply. Hartwig Hausdorf says that the Ukrainian scientist Dr. Vladimir Rubstov wrote to him that Sungods in Exile was science fiction, not fact. Barnes and Noble online has a slightly damaged former library copy of Sungods in Exile for sale. Another interesting work of fiction, The HAB Theory (1976) by Allan W. Eckert, also discusses the Dropas.
The photos that are attributed to Wegener appear to be legitimate, but they hardly verify the Dropa story. The spiral is not prominent, much less the script. There is also another photo (not attributed to Wegener) that accompanies some of the Dropa stories, but the disk shown there is much larger than the 12 inch disks described in the stories. It's as big as the chair that's beside it in the photo!
Something to consider is that, as Hausdorf also points out, stone disks with a hole in the center and double spirals are not unusual in Chinese archaeology. It is believed that they may have been related to ancient snake-worshipping cults.
The Violations website provided some enlightening information about Gordon Creighton's investigation of the Dropa story:
Erich von Daniken gives as his source for this story a conversation in Moscow in 1968 with Soviet writer Aleksandr Kazantsev and records that the discs themselves and the documentation of their discovery is preserved at the (then) Peking Academy of Prehistory and the Chinese Academy of Sciences at T'ai-Pei in Taiwan. However, journalist Gordon Creighton contacted a number of Chinese academics about the Dropa stones story, and none of them had even heard of the story.
Then he contacted Soviet writer Aleksandr Kazantsev to verify the account that had been given to Von Daniken. The surprising response was that Kazantsev had not given Von Daniken the story; rather that Von Daniken had given it to Kazantsev!
Finally, Creighton says that the claim that the tribes supposedly descended from the aliens are frail and weak has been found to be untrue. The Kams (Hams, Khams ) are said to be marauding bandits who are feared by their neighbors. The Kam provided men to be bodyguards for the Dalai Lama when he fled the Chinese invasion of Tibet. The Dropa tribe is also described as consisting of rugged and ferocious people, not dwarfs with large heads.
So lets see here - nobody can exactly pin down where the story came from, many of the principals seem to be impossible to track down, and various accounts contradict one another; one source cited by celebrated fabulist von Daniken goes so far as to say, no, he didn't give von Daniken the story, von Daniken gave it to him - nope, doesn't look good for this particular "proof" you've trotted out here. Not good at all.
Did some research myself, and was entirely unsurprised to discover the only mention of these fabled discs is to be found either among the websites given to crudulously - and breathlessly - endorsing whatever wild scheme falls their way, and more dispassionate websites given to debunking same.
But please don't "go way" - the enterainment value of your proposition, and the so-far ludicrous defense of same, is well worth the electrons expended.
Pug: I have to give it to you from the other side of the fence: You quote scripture in your signature; but your post shows a belief completely contrary to scripture (as well as reason). Make up your mind. BTW, I hardly think you are able to 'speak down' to any of us.
Timbo-
Very interesting, and well put. I think there are many anomalies that have not been thoroughly investigated. But what are the odds that all of them are untrue? How would you explain the presence of what would appear to be carvings of aircraft in stone and wood? Not all of the physical evidence of these anomalies is obscure.
O-o-o-o-hoo-hoo.....That;s got too smart
Neo-
I believe in a connection of all things. All things are from the same origin (wherever that may have been.) All things are woven into the fabric of time, there is more to this three dimensional world we see.As far as my quote. I believe this is one of the clues left behind to help us have faith that we could evolve to his level of existence. Yeshua has irrefutable truth and I love that. He is the model sent to us by the creator (YAH) to show us the way back.
You have quoted this recently :Issues of faith transcend nature." It also transcends logic, consistency, and nature.Issues of credulity transcend nature and reason. And so I know we agree on some things. I think If you give me some time To understand a few things about the relationship between the Mayan calender and the correlation between its accuracy, I think we can communicate. The fact that many religions seem to be pointing in the same direction (if not fanatically twisted) I'm of course talking about the ideology of the religion , not what in actual practice we see, and have seen in commercialized centralized modern and mid-evil churches . Some of the key truths were lost or stolen throughout time by human nature. But the earth is getting smaller very fast. And the anomalies will be solved one way or another if in fact if we are not in the end times right now.
I however believe we are in the end times. Not because I think we are starting to see some of Revelations prophecy, appearing to occur. But because I notice a correlation between Hopi prophecy, Mayan prophecy, Christian prophecy, current nanotechnology and the higher self.
"what are the odds that all of them are untrue?"
yet again complete balls you cant prove a negative
why dont these religious types ever employ logic?
Steve,
.....Before you try mixing reiigion with logic, try mixing oil with water, or gas with fire.
That should be self-explanatory, Oh Thou Ancient One, the application of logic is the death of faith.
Main Entry: logic
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: reasoning
Synonyms: argumentation, coherence, connection, deduction, dialectic, good sense, induction, inference, linkage, philosophy, ratiocination, rationale, relationship, sanity, sense, sound judgment, syllogism, syllogistics, thesis
Source: Roget's New Millennium Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.1.1)
Copyright © 2005 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
I think it would be logical to assume that the probability of losing ones faith would be high, unless something illogical happens to the person and it causes him/her to re-think their logic.
I'll say this: either ghosts are real and can physically and emotionally affect you and cause you to have a greater level of control over your life than yourself (they act in your best interest and intervene when needed), or we can actually do it ourselves.
1) I have been a church goer, and a long term believer in our Savior the Lord Yeshua, and have seen and felt the benefits of the American christian experience. However it does not as some would say "complete the picture ,
2) I have seen witnessed and lived the benefits of pushing the envelope further, by reading to learn every different point of view available and all different cultural wisdom recorded that I can get my hands on. I wish some of it would sink in better.As mentioned in a previous post on this site:"that if you really want to know something works. Do it. Try it,
yourself". I really think it is very closely related to the "walking on the water" Yet another example of basically saying to ourselves, and convincing ourselves that we can succeed, isn't that what we call positive thinking? In other words if you start to doubt, and then apply logic you would be destroy the possibility of success. That is of course unless you have proceeded blindly on the first instance, whithout really questioning it at first, in any real detail, and you succeed! And then startle yourself while trying to figure out what exactly just happened. You would then be at a point where you are trying to go on an exhaustive search for whatever truth
out there you can find to explain what just happened to you. Once you find it you feel so free.
The kicker is this: I have been finding connections everywhere, where various religions, wicca, new age, ancient civilizations, electrocution, healing books ,self help books, and my old wrestling coach as well!
and on and on where there are examples of these kind of manifestations, of being blessed somehow. The feeling the "hand of YAH" touch your head. will cause you to rethink a lot of things..
