RexRed wrote:
I don't know where you get the idea that Christians are wimps...
I have never said I think Christians are wimps.
I think, for the most part, they are poor, frightened, deluded fools...and I pity them.
But never wimps.
Quote:
These terrorists regimes use tough words don't they?
Remember the crusades? We would all be part of the Persian empire if it was not for brave "Christians" that died to push back their swords...
C'mon. Keep this stuff up and I'm gonna get Setanata over here to lecture you on the crusades and the "brave Chrisitans!"
Quote:I don't always agree with Pat but we will see in time if he was right or wrong... he speaks his mind... so do you...
I don't need to stoop to crap jokes to communicate a point.
In almost seventy years it is a shame you have not learned that yet...
I do respect your opinion Frank but not when you get that low...
I will pray for you...
Oh, that oughta help!
But thanks for the thought. I will hope for you in return.
Quote:Clean it up a bit if you expect "sane" reasoning people to seriously consider what you say...
If I respond to this straight line...I will probably regret it....so I won't!
RexRed wrote:They are appropriate for prayer... prayer with positive believing...
Why pray for world peace when the devil is in the world and the world refuses to recognize the cause of their wars?
Well would it be appropriate to pray that your god would get off his lazy duff and get rid of the devil that is causing all these wars????
Quote:Prayer is for those who recognize that the battle has been won through the works of Jesus Christ. Prayer is for those who walk in the newness of life and people who recognize they are not powerless over spiritual tyranny.
Prayer is for people who think prayers work...and who delude themselves into supposing it does simply because they think it does.
Quote:People have been unchained and the doors to their prisons have been opened but if they choose to remain in their prison, then that is their own choice...
And we are working as hard as we can to get you to see your prison and your chains...but you seem to love them so much....they have become invisible to you.
Quote:We have power over the devil but many are defeated because they have been overcome by their own fears, habit patterns and sin consciousness...
Then again...maybe there is no devil....just like there is no Grinch...and people are allowing their fears and habit patterns delude them into supposing there are.
Frank Apisa wrote:RexRed wrote:They are appropriate for prayer... prayer with positive believing...
Why pray for world peace when the devil is in the world and the world refuses to recognize the cause of their wars?
Well would it be appropriate to pray that your god would get off his lazy duff and get rid of the devil that is causing all these wars????
Quote:Prayer is for those who recognize that the battle has been won through the works of Jesus Christ. Prayer is for those who walk in the newness of life and people who recognize they are not powerless over spiritual tyranny.
Prayer is for people who think prayers work...and who delude themselves into supposing it does simply because they think it does.
Quote:People have been unchained and the doors to their prisons have been opened but if they choose to remain in their prison, then that is their own choice...
And we are working as hard as we can to get you to see your prison and your chains...but you seem to love them so much....they have become invisible to you.
Quote:We have power over the devil but many are defeated because they have been overcome by their own fears, habit patterns and sin consciousness...
Then again...maybe there is no devil....just like there is no Grinch...and people are allowing their fears and habit patterns delude them into supposing there are.
God gave us the power of Christ to defeat the devil...
Those who do not operate this power are ultimately defeated by the devil...
You are do full of maybe's Frank that you are worse than a wet noodle
Frank...
Actually, prayer is for those people who KNOW that prayer works. Those who have not lived experiences of faith cannot know what prayer can do. I have seen too many instances to doubt it. No, it was not coincidence, luck or imagined.
You can't doubt something that is accepted without critical analysis and accepted by blind faith. In such a situation, one would always give the benefit of the doubt to one's belief.
cicerone imposter wrote:You can't doubt something that is accepted without critical analysis and accepted by blind faith. In such a situation, one would always give the benefit of the doubt to one's belief.
A believer analyzes the results of prayer... nothing blind about that...
There's something obviously wrong with your kind of "analysis."
Nonsense, Rex - "Maybe" is the only logical, defensible, supportable "answer". The closest thing to a wet noodle around here is the rope the religionsits are trying to push.
The simple fact of the matter is that scientifically, academically valid research preponderantly - almost to the point of exclusivity - contraindicates the existence of the paranormal, or, if you prefer, the supernatural. By the same token, no academically, scientifically valid research ever has indicated otherwise; the data to support the religionsit proposition just plain ain't there. Now, certainly, the absence of evidence does not equate to evidence of absence. None the less, from an objective, intellectually honest, thoroughly pragmatic viewpoint, the best one can do when it comes to drawing conclusions is to go with that supported by the bulk of the available evidence. With the available evidence, it is not proper to conclude the paranormal/supernatural does not exist; the only reasonable conclusion is that the paranormal/supernatural is, by the available evidence, improbable. Not impossible, mind you, but improbable, in that much academically, scientifically valid evidence argues against it, while none (as in zip, zero, zilch, nada, nothing, ain't none nowhere) argues for it. There may be something to the religionist proposition, but it seems highly improbable there would be.
That leaves in response to any question of the existence, influence, and/or efficacy of the paranormal/supernatural, only the answer; "Maybe, but I doubt it".
cicerone imposter wrote:There's something obviously wrong with your kind of "analysis."
Question....What differentiates one person's analysis from another's? What makes one person's opinion better than another's? I will be interested to read the answer.
Intrepid wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:There's something obviously wrong with your kind of "analysis."
Question....What differentiates one person's analysis from another's? What makes one person's opinion better than another's? I will be interested to read the answer.
The use of verifiable, replicateable information inhances the validity of one person's opinion over another.
dyslexia wrote:Intrepid wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:There's something obviously wrong with your kind of "analysis."
Question....What differentiates one person's analysis from another's? What makes one person's opinion better than another's? I will be interested to read the answer.
The use of verifiable, replicateable information inhances the validity of one person's opinion over another.
True... I was just looking for some :-)
RexRed wrote:
God gave us the power of Christ to defeat the devil...
So how come the devil is still starting wars.
And if you god gave you the power of Christ to defeat the devil...why didn't the god simply defeat the devil himself? Why leave it up to humans...which the god knows full well are not up to the job? (All said pretending the preposterous fairytale known as Christianity actually makes sense.)
Quote:Those who do not operate this power are ultimately defeated by the devil...
Really! Well since the wars continue...nobody must be operating this power...and all are ultimately defeated.
Quite a religion you've got there, Rex.
Quote:You are do full of maybe's Frank that you are worse than a wet noodle
You ought to try a few of those noodles, Rex. It is known as honesty. That is a trait your god supposedly values, is it not?
Intrepid wrote:Frank...
Actually, prayer is for those people who KNOW that prayer works.
And you are guessing that there are such people????
Quote: Those who have not lived experiences of faith cannot know what prayer can do.
I agree with that.
But every indication is that those who have lived experiences of faith can't either.
Quote: I have seen too many instances to doubt it.
My guess is that you haven't...but I doubt your will be able to get out from the stone-headedness you call faith...to see that.
Quote: No, it was not coincidence, luck or imagined.
And you can prove that, of course!
RexRed wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:You can't doubt something that is accepted without critical analysis and accepted by blind faith. In such a situation, one would always give the benefit of the doubt to one's belief.
A believer analyzes the results of prayer... nothing blind about that...
There are a whole bunch of things "believers" do...but analyze prayer is not one of them. Like the rest of their "beliefs"...they accept the value and efficacy of prayer blindly.
Intrepid wrote:dyslexia wrote:Intrepid wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:There's something obviously wrong with your kind of "analysis."
Question....What differentiates one person's analysis from another's? What makes one person's opinion better than another's? I will be interested to read the answer.
The use of verifiable, replicateable information inhances the validity of one person's opinion over another.
True... I was just looking for some :-)
Okay...I am asserting that the overwhelming indications are that none of us knows for certain if prayer works (whether by dint of a god or any other way)...or does not work. I am also asserting that the "evidence" is ambiguous...much too ambiguous to make a meaningful guess in either direction.
You are asserting that prayer does work.
Where is your verifiable, replicatable evidence for your assertion.
Abraham prays at the synagogue for a win on the lottery. Nothing.
Next week he prays again. Nothing.
Following week, to his surprise God answers. He says Abraham you are a good man. You know I heard you already the last two Saturdays, I am favourable for you having a modest win, but please Abe, meet me half way, BUY A TICKET.
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:Abraham prays at the synagogue for a win on the lottery. Nothing.
Next week he prays again. Nothing.
Following week, to his surprise God answers. He says Abraham you are a good man. You know I heard you already the last two Saturdays, I am favourable for you having a modest win, but please Abe, meet me half way, BUY A TICKET.
Oh...I cannot wait to tell others this joke. It is great!
Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:And you can prove that, of course!
No, I cannot provide irrevocable proof. Just as you cannot prove otherwise. Fact is, it cannot be proved either way.
Intrepid wrote:Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:And you can prove that, of course!
No, I cannot provide irrevocable proof. Just as you cannot prove otherwise. Fact is, it cannot be proved either way.
Ahhhh, yes, Grasshopper ... but much evidence favors the negative while scant to none favors the affirmative. Whether or not the issue ever may be proven, it so far has not been proven, though such proof as is available - actual, academically, scientifically valid proof - mitigates against the religionist proposition.
