Which Religion is the One True Religion?

I'm thoroughly disillusioned with the pair of ya . . .

real life wrote:

Relying on prayer alone is, of course, not what anyone here has suggested.

No, but you can clearly see from the results of the studies, that prayer does not work.

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However, relying on medical help alone may be far more dangerous.

I'd not go to the hospital without praying.

from fda.gov, citing an Institute of Medicine ( part of the National Academy of Science) report

Quote:

The public took notice in 1999 when the Institute of Medicine (IOM) released a report, "To Err is Human: Building a Safer Health System." According to the report, between 44,000 and 98,000 deaths may result each year from medical errors in hospitals alone. And more than 7,000 deaths each year are related to medications. In response to the IOM's report, all parts of the U.S. health system put error reduction strategies into high gear by re-evaluating and strengthening checks and balances to prevent errors.

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2003/303_meds.html

Medication alone seemed to only account for part of this

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Since 1992, the Food and Drug Administration has received about 20,000 reports of medication errors. These are voluntary reports, so the number of medication errors that actually occur is thought to be much higher.

The small numbers you cite pale beside the estimate of 44,000-98,000 deaths EACH YEAR.

So, Wolf, if you go to the hospital let us know. I'll pray even if you don't.

True, 200 children is statistically small, but what is your point? That's 200 precious lives unnecessarily lost because of a false belief that prayer alone works.

I was trying to point out these studies, which prove that prayer does not work. Instead, you then make a counter argument saying that hospitals are more dangerous than prayer alone, changing the tact of the argument, and not taking into account the fact that less people prefer prayer alone to traditional medicine than traditional medicine over prayer alone.

You also fail to take into account that the percentage of people who die from illness who use prayer as their only method of healing is much larger than the percentage of people who die from traditional medicine.

However, I have suddenly realised that this argument is going a little bit off-track because of my insistence on trying to back someone else's argument up with facts that I've found.

You also fail to take into account that the percentage of people who die from illness who use prayer as their only method of healing is much larger than the percentage of people who die from traditional medicine

Even though auto travel has been getting far safer in recent years, the number of auto crash fatalities was nonetheless 41,821 (including 4,739 pedestrians) in 2000, according to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. This yearly total means that more than 700 people die in car crashes in a typical week.

"Prove a negative of prayer?" ROFLMAO

No. What I said was there is a study that shows prayer does not work. Even got 12 congregations to pray for over 300 cancer paitients, and their survival was no better than the 300 other cancer patients with no prayer.

You tried to wiggle out of that one, but you can't have your cake and eat it too!

Natural Killer (NK) cells are yet another type of lethal lymphocyte. Like cytotoxic T cells, they contain granules filled with potent chemicals. They are called "natural" killers because they, unlike cytotoxic T cells, do not need to recognize a specific antigen before swinging into action. They target tumor cells and protect against a wide variety of infectious microbes. In several immunodeficiency diseases, including AIDS, natural killer cell function is abnormal. Natural killer cells may also contribute to immunoregulation by secreting high levels of influential lymphokines.

Both cytotoxic T cells and natural killer cells kill on contact. The killer binds to its target, aims its weapons, and then delivers a lethal burst of chemicals that produces holes in the target cell's membrane. Fluids seep in and leak out, and the cell bursts.

The Immune System and the Nervous System
A new field of research, known as psychoneuroimmunology, is exploring how the immune system and the brain may interact to influence health. For years stress has been suspected of increasing susceptibility to various infectious diseases or cancer. Now evidence is mounting that the immune system and the nervous system may be inextricably interconnected.

Research has shown that a wide range of stresses, from losing a spouse to facing a tough examination, can deplete immune resources, causing levels of B and T cells to drop, natural killer cells to become less responsive, and fewer IgA antibodies to be secreted in the saliva.

Biological links between the immune system and the central nervous system exist at several levels. One well-known pathway involves the adrenal glands, which, in response to stress messages from the brain, release corticosteroid hormones into the blood. In addition to helping a person respond to emergencies by mobilizing the body's energy reserves, these "stress hormones" decrease antibodies and reduce lymphocytes in both number and strength.

cicerone imposter wrote:

No. What I said was there is a study that shows prayer does not work. Even got 12 congregations to pray for over 300 cancer paitients, and their survival was no better than the 300 other cancer patients with no prayer.

You tried to wiggle out of that one, but you can't have your cake and eat it too!

If I said I looked in 300 houses and didn't find a pool table, does that prove pool tables do not exist?

CI, you are trying to prove a negative, with no success.

Intrepid wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Prayer does not work; nature/environment controls almost everything in our lives. Earthquakes, tsunamis, and floods are indiscriminate natural disasters; prayer is not an option for survival. Luck can help sometimes.

I am amazed at your knowledge on prayer and God's ways. Where did you get this vast knowledge? You state that prayer does not work. What is it that you expect the working of a prayer to be? Have you ever prayed? Have you ever experienced the effects of prayer?

Do you mean the gas???

Hey...on a serious note about prayer...

...have you ever seen Pat Robertson doing one of his prayer things...eyes closed, face all scrunched up and such.

Tell me...and be truthful...doesn't it look like he is in the middle of a bowl movement...and trying to pass a stool the size of an NFL football?

Same thing with Jerry Falwell!

RexRed wrote:

Ask and believe...

James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

"Rejoice in the hope. Endure under tribulation. Persevere in prayer."(Romans 12:12)

supplication

noun

An earnest or urgent request: appeal, entreaty, imploration, plea, prayer1. See ask/answer.
The act of praying: invocation, prayer1. See religion.

neologist, It's not a question. You must learn to read the English language. It's a statement; prayer does not work.

It's amazing that some christians know there are folks who call themselves christians, but they are not. Must be a special gift of some christians selected by their god.

real life wrote:

To claim however that NO prayer has at ANY time worked would require omniscience on your part.

You claim that the opposite is true would require the same omniscience wouldn't it? You have no idea if god answered your prayer or if it were another force or nothing at all. Are you claiming to what god does when he does it?

Quote:

supplication

noun

An earnest or urgent request: appeal, entreaty, imploration, plea, prayer1. See ask/answer.
The act of praying: invocation, prayer1. See religion.

Supplication IS praying.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Prayer does not work; nature/environment controls almost everything in our lives. Earthquakes, tsunamis, and floods are indiscriminate natural disasters; prayer is not an option for survival. Luck can help sometimes.

I am amazed at your knowledge on prayer and God's ways. Where did you get this vast knowledge? You state that prayer does not work. What is it that you expect the working of a prayer to be? Have you ever prayed? Have you ever experienced the effects of prayer?

Do you mean the gas???

Hey...on a serious note about prayer...

...have you ever seen Pat Robertson doing one of his prayer things...eyes closed, face all scrunched up and such.

Tell me...and be truthful...doesn't it look like he is in the middle of a bowl movement...and trying to pass a stool the size of an NFL football?

Same thing with Jerry Falwell!

You will take any opportunity you can to bash and insult Christians with your hate...

Again, I don't want your "religion" Frank... You think people should become an agnostic so then they can become as sick and disgusting as you? NO THANKS! You are one big example of a jerk.

You would have been there gleefully cheering with the Romans while Christians were being fed to the lions... You have no conscience to see how far you have slipped into decadence...

It is you dumping all over this forum your crap... You must have a face like that every time you reply... wrinkle lines seared into your face from your redundant pose...

Do you think Jesus looked like he was having a bowel movement when ignorant pawns like you were crucifying him?

If you were not so damn self worshiping you would know what it is like to pray for someone dying of cancer.

Do you suggest they spit pickles and dance around the room doing cartwheels?

Halleluiah Jesus, this person is in pain and dying!!!

You have no heart... You can take your vain agnostic "religion" Frank because it is empty and has made you into a cold-hearted calculated fool...

I would defend these evangelists LONG before I would defend you... think about that seriously.

Your words tell me you have little or no true character.

I am a Christian and I love my enemies but on varying degrees of what the Bible states as duties. Something you would not know about because you are too busy worshiping yourself...

My Christian family in most cases comes long before self worshiping agnostics and atheists like you...

I draw the line with people who insult my spiritual brothers and sisters.
They may be sinners but they have not committed the unforgivable sin by denying the one true God. Have you committed this unforgivable sin?

Remember that when you come to the lake of fire not to make a grimace and crap your pants before you are pushed in to fry for all eternity in your own hate...

There is a old story. A religious man is praying to God for something to happen, and it doesn't. He goes to the minister, and tells him his tale of woe. He says that God does not listen to his prayers.

The minister replies, "Of course God listened to your prayers. He said, "No"!