timberlandko wrote:Neither the theist nor the atheist has any proof whatsoever; conviction, yeah - passion, yeah. Proof? Nope - not a bit of it. Ramble all you want in and out of your mythopaeia's myths, texts and traditions; all they "prove" is that there are myths, texts and traditions Now what both the theist and the atheist have aplenty is the arrogance to claim, in the total absence of either scientically or forensically valid evidence, that they have "The Answer". Thats just plain silly, either way it stacks.
I'm curious, Rex - have you read Aquinas' Summa Theologica? You might do well to familiarize yourself with it. At great lenght, and in great depth and detail, the objections to Christian beliefs are presented, examined, disected, and refuted - refuted, that is, if indeed there must be and is a god and that god is the god of the Abrahamic mythopaeia. However, even though Aquinas proceeds from an illicit premis, he forges a powerful argument - about the only flaw in which is that initial illicit premis concerning the nature of the universe. You see, there is no reason to conclude there must be a god, let alone to conclude that if there be a god, that god be the god of Abrahamic tradition, and further it is unsupportable to conclude that, even if stipulated, that god is in particular the god of the Christian subset of the Abrahamic tradition - thats a bit of a simplification, but even then thats way, way too many assumptions, too many "givens". The Answer may be attainable, it may not be. Whatever, despite claims on either side, no one can produce a validly argued answer. It comes down to superstition. Apart from its man-made holy trappings, nothing differentiates faith from superstition - nothing evidenced so far, anyway.
Very nice post Timber.
I will check out your book.
Here is a bit about me I hope it is not too personal.
My great grandfather, a lawyer/judge (on my mother's side) was one of the founders of the rationalists society of America and he used to travel the country spreading the drivel...
My father was eighty when he died twenty years ago I was born when he was fifty-nine so my great grandfather goes way back.
My father was born in 1905.. a Norwegian immigrant fisherman who landed on Ellis island. He was sea captain on supertankers for the United States all of his life.
My mother's father was a sea captain on supertankers too and sailed through two world wars for the US..
I am not sure what my point was in all of that...
My father was a Lutheran and also a head mason and my mother was a Lutheran also and a worthy matron in the eastern star.
Her father was born in Dallas and her father's father was a lawyer/judge and a rationalist.
I believe I got my desire to proselytize and debate from my great grandfather on my mother's side, even though our beliefs are completely opposed.
I am a Christian and my book of learning is the old and new testaments specifically the epistles of Paul...
When I left the Lutheran religion it was when my brother died (burned to death) and I did not know that I had some secret resentment toward God concerning his death. My life began to get worse and worse. I had no real foundation and I had enormous energy.
I am not certain if I was born again in the Lutheran religion. When I attended it it was rather stoic and somewhat sterile. But there were definitely virtues that shone through.
Yet, I had a Sunday school knowledge of God even after attending youth groups too and later church.
Then after my brothers death my life began to spiral out of control. This was the point when I may have become a general spiritualist. I was thirteen when my older brother died and the general spiritualist subtly grew and bloomed into a young adult.
Then my life seemed to over time become more worthless. I lost all hope and seemed to only want to play with the spirits or be played with, whatever perspective one has.
I was unaware of the spiritual possession of my soul.
My Christian teachings had left my mind completely... I allowed my mind to wander where it would. (this is very personal) Suddenly I had pictured myself jumping from a nearby bridge... Still my life kept spiraling downward..
A week later (I was 18yo) I met some non denomination Bible believing Christians. I of course met them in the weirdest of circumstances and my intensions had nothing to do with God... Yet they saw through my own blindness.
I spent weeks with them doing nothing but reading the Bible and singing psalms to God. The words became suddenly living... They (the Christians) not only saved my life but they gave me an understanding of a truth that will never leave me. Twenty four years later the Bible is even more dear to my heart...
I am a million times more of a person because of their love and grace upon my soul. If I can bring even one person to the light of Christ then I have returned the favor to them and God...
God is my salvation and God is the light in the harbor of uncertainty...
Also
The understanding of the Bible in the seventeen/eighteen hundreds was rather crude.
Rationalists had a heyday back then but that logic does not stand up today with more researched knowledge of the scriptures.
I will check out your book anyway...
I am open to any logic if it seems to be going somewhere.
Peace with God...
