Genuinely confused about feminism and boobs

You are a repetitive guy going on an and on about feminism.

Most women don't use feminism in an ideological sense, rad, your target.
You poke yourself into threads strafing, scouring.

This is not unusual as in arguments with others you like going on and on forever, taking yourself as a good debater.

I'm not a good debater, but I know them when I see them.

I take you as too bias laden.

I'm done Max. Lets not pretend 'feminist' connotes unequal. It's hard to determine what it is you want to know, or need explained. Frankly, it's exhausting because you keep changing direction. Good luck getting this worked out.

That's funny Osso. If I am repetitive responding to you, that means you are repetitive too. If you stop responding, I will too. You don't get to shut down opinions just because you don't agree with them.

This topic interests me, and I have the right to respectfully express my opinions on the topic as I feel is appropriate. If you know longer want to be a part of this discussion... then just stop. Don't be upset with me if you choose to be a part of a discussion that no longer interests you.

Now let me explain the flaws I see in your argument (which you can choose to respond to or not. But if you choose to continue the discussion, don't blame me that it continues).

1) Most women don't consider themselves to be feminist, and some women object directly to what they understand of modern feminism. If you look at prominent feminist writers and blogs you will see a view of "feminism" (as they define it) that many men and women find objectionable.

2) I don't have any problem with anyone calling themselves a feminist. I respect that. This doesn't have any impact on whether I agree or disagree with them on any given topic. It is merely their own choice on how they care to view themselves.

3) I do have a problem with people using feminism to judge other people.
When Glitterbag said "Being a feminist means you get to make your own decisions regarding how you live your life." I objected because to me it implies that people who aren't feminists don't get to make their own decisions. I suppose that maybe this wasn't Glitterbag's intent, and if she corrects me, I will apologize.

4) I do feel that the word "feminist" as used in the 21st century is not helpful. We have words for things that are important; equality, fairness, justice, family... decent people can disagree about these things on one issue and agree on another. If you look at feminist blogs and writings, you don't see respect and understanding of other viewpoints.

5) I do not like personal attacks. When you suggested that I was "on the rag", in my opinion you crossed a line not only of taste, but also of using personal attack to shut down an opinion you don't think should even be expressed.

I have no issue with this or any other biological process, but when you used that term. I believe that you meant to imply that I was cranky and illogical because I was menstruating.

This seems inappropriate to me on a couple of levels. Could you explain to me what you meant by saying I was "on the rag"?

One correction "Being a feminist means you KNOW you have the right to choose how you wish to live, and you don't need to get permission to live how you wish" "and you don't have to call yourself anything other than a human being"

There are women who meet this definition who don't call themselves "feminist" nor do they want other people calling themselves feminist. That's really my point.

Carly Fiorina certainly knows she has the right to choose how she wishes to live, and yet she is being rejected by many mainstream "feminists".



I love irony.

All right, you're right. I should have given you a serious answer. Some feminists have boobs. Some feminists are boobs. Almost everyone who obsesses about feminism (such as you and Max) are boobs.

I love irony.

Welcome to another feminism thread, Setanta (I was wondering when you would get here).

You wouldn't know irony if it bit you in your pathetic, obsessed @ss . . .

Here's an example of irony for you, Max. You claim that you knew i would show up (how hard was that--i'd already posted in this thread), ignoring that you've been babbling on and on and on . . . and saying nothing of any interest.

correction - I support Miller's right to think that.
Me, I don't mind the word boobs.

To anyone who may care, I used "on the rag" as jest, a mild taunt, you poor thing, and as just as it has been used to and by us women often in the past, especially pre-Kotex and Tampax, and it does mean cranky. PMS may have supplanted it but I don't know, since I don't presently read about these nuances.

I wasn't hurt by it Osso... I just thought it was a good illustration of the fact that when anyone tries any type of discussion about feminism that doesn't cling to the ideological correctness it leads to personal attacks. Carly Fiorona, who understands what it means to succeed as a woman in a field that is historically male dominated, notes the same thing. I am sure that Setanta means "obsessive pompous @ss" as a jest and a mild taunt too.

It would be nice if it were possible to have a balanced, respectful conversation about feminism without people jumping in to shut down any discussion that doesn't adhere to a strict understanding of political rectitude.

I swore I wasn't going to read anymore of his circular arguments, but the sentence below was far too rich to let slip by:



I think your complaint needs to be examined. First of all, you always insist that you have "politely asked", but you never do. You refuse to accept what the women here have tried to explain and immediately go off on a tangent like "well, Trump's hair is being ridiculed" ergo you girls have a double standard. (sniff sniff).

If I was interested in 2016 to discuss the word 'feminist', I would prefer balanced and respectful, but Max, you are never balanced or respectful. I can't imagine why any woman would take time out of day to patiently explain her view on anything only to be met with an immediate childish refusal to even consider what she said.

Actually, you are a huge waste of time for me. I'm fully aware that what I'm stating here will fly over your head because you can't imagine that there is a woman alive who could measure up to your fanciful notion of intelligence. What I'm writing here is not really intended for you, you will reject it immediately but....I don't care. This post is actually meant for everyone else on the forum. I'm not the first person to complain how disingenuous your postings are. People get tired, just flat tired of you changing subjects. It's ok if you can't follow what the rest of us are discussing, but it's not ok for you to barrel in and assign "Max-motives" to others.

I know, just like everyone else knows, you cannot help yourself. I get that you have no impulse control and some boundary issues, but ultimately it's fingernails on a chalk board. You are the tone-deaf voice in the choir, I can't think of another way to say it. Maybe I could, but I've spent far too much time beating my head on the desk. Good luck in your future endeavors.

Yes, this seems like the problem. If I accepted what "the women here" said, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. (Of course not all "the women here" agree with you... but that is another issue).

I have my own opinions. You have every right to express your opinions. But you don't have the right to shut out opinions you don't accept from a public discussion (which is a common complaint about modern feminism).



I think you are confusing me with someone else.



Other than "refusing to accept what women here are trying to explain" I don't believe this is true. I have stated my opinions, and I have been willing to disagree with you.

But, I have never attacked you personally. Nor, do I take the fact that you "refuse to accept" what I say personally.



I find this funny given the fact you keep responding to me.



Oh... so what Carly Fiorona is saying is true. You are trying to shut down the debate and to keep people who disagree with you from expressing their opinion.

If you didn't just give the definition of "ad hominem" than I don't know what that definition would be.



That makes me chuckle.



Yes, I agree with you.



Thank you. You are very kind.

You win the award for the oddest response (and being the most sensitive person alive) though as I really don't see how you went from the word boob which is in no way offensive to the mocking cancer victims. It's one of the most desperate straw man arguments I have ever seen and as my own mother died of breast cancer it is patently baseless.

Anyway moving on, does anyone have an opinion on either of the feminist campaigns mentioned such as ban bossy or free the nipple? Does anyone think we still need feminism in 2016 because I can't personally think of any way a person is disadvantaged based on gender that isn't through choice e.g. choosing to have a baby.

I Googled feminsm forum and this was one of the top results

http://able2know.org/forum/feminism/

that's kind of funny

it is excellent SEO - but if you look at the board, you'll notice there's not much going on here in the way of discussion of feminism/feminist history/academics etc

good luck with your search

i do try to live my life according to my own believs but when being paid a 30% less than a man for the same job, when seing my promotion job opportunities reduced because being a medium aged woman means highly probable to get pregnant and not fully focused on my job any more or being labelled as a bitter bitch if i´m agresive and strict in my job while my colleages are seen as succesful business men .... my life suddently seems affectated by somebody else´s believes

I agree with you about pay equality. This is something that we need to address. I am glad that the Democratic candidates are both talking about this.

Your job sounds difficult, I haven't experienced that. I have had both male and female bosses... mostly good. My previous boss was male and everyone considered him an a**hole. I don't exactly know what "aggressive and strict" means, but these aren't qualities I want in any manager or co-worker.

Could you explain this more?