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Conservatives, Liberals and Blacks

 
 
Foxfyre
 
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 12:03 pm
Is it racist to say black Americans are victims?

Quote:
Conservatives, Liberals and Blacks
by Walter E. Williams
Click here to Print | E-mail this Page

During the first Reagan administration, I participated in a number of press conferences on either a book or article that I'd written or as a panelist in discussion of White House public policy. On occasion, when the question and answer session began, I'd tell the press, "You can treat me like a white person. Ask hard, penetrating questions." The remark often brought uncomfortable laughter but I was dead serious. If there is one general characteristic of white liberals, it's their condescending and demeaning attitude toward blacks.

According to a Washington Times story (7/14/04), Democratic hopeful Senator John Kerry, in a speech about education to a predominantly black audience, said that there are more blacks in prison than in college. "That's unacceptable, but it's not their fault" he said. Do you think Kerry would also say that white inmates are also faultless? Aside from Kerry being factually wrong about the black prison versus college population, his vision differs little from one that holds that blacks are a rudderless, victimized people who cannot control their destiny and our best hope depends upon the benevolence of white people.

Have you watched some white politicians talking to black audiences? It's bad enough to watch the Reverends Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson do an imitation of Flip Wilson's Reverend Leroy. But to watch Al Gore and Bill Clinton do it is insulting in the least. They don't talk to white audiences that way. As a matter of fact Sharpton and Jackson don't talk to white audiences that way either - talking about going from the outhouse to the White House and from disgrace to amazing grace and other such nonsense. By the way, after addressing the NAACP's 95th annual convention in Philadelphia, Kerry gave the audience the black power clenched fist salute. I wonder whether his white audiences get the black power salute as well.

On July 23rd, President Bush gave a speech to the National Urban League. Unlike so many other white politicians speaking before predominantly black audiences Bush didn't bother to pander and supplicate. He spoke of educational accountability and school choice and condemned high taxes, increased regulation and predatory lawsuits. He defended the institution of marriage. He didn't see blacks as victims in need of a paternalistic government to come to our rescue. He saw blacks needing what every American needs - an environment where there's rule of law, limited government and equality before the law. The most important question President Bush left with the audience was whether blacks should give the Democratic party a monopoly over their vote and take their votes for granted.

Senator Kerry and others have criticized Bush for snubbing the NAACP convention. Here's my question to you. If you were president would you speak before a group whose president, Kweisi Mfume, said, "We have a president that's prepared to take us back to the days of Jim Crow segregation and dominance." or whose chairman, Julian Bond, who said, "[President Bush] has appeased the wretched appetites of the extreme right wing and has chosen cabinet officials whose devotion to the Confederacy is nearly canine in its uncritical affection."?

It's always been my contention that the conservative vision shows far greater respect for blacks than the liberal you-can't-make-it-without-us vision. For decades there have been buy-off-the-black-vote presidential appointments like secretaries of labor, health and human services, education, and housing. But it's been conservative presidents who have appointed blacks to top positions of responsibility and authority such as Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Republican presidents didn't make these appointments to buy off the black vote. They chose the best people around who just happened to be black Americans.

Maybe it's guilt that motivates white liberals. That's why I've graciously offered a Certificate of Amnesty and Pardon (http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/gift.html).

Walter E. Williams

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/04/conservatives.html
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 12:12 pm
and it's always been my contention that in the quest for greater profit/wealth, the consevative mindset is more than willing to exploit whatever population it has available regardless of the cost to human suffering and/or equality. but then that's just my opinion, not unlike the opinion offered in the above offering of Walter E Williams in accuracy.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 12:16 pm
Well, he what else can I espect by a favourite Townhall columnist and writer of such epi like "Socialism is Evil" than the above?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 12:48 pm
Williams is a syndicated columnist featured in many of the nation's daily newspapers as well as a full professor of economics at George Mason University, Walter. He is an unashamed libertarian and therefore is recruited for Townhall as well. Did you read his 'socialism is evil' piece? It would make an interesting discussion topic as well. I am disappointed that you stoop to the 'attack the messenger' form of debate rather than consider the thesis presented.

Anyway, as rebuttal to Dys's comment re conservatives caring more for profit than for the poor I offer these sources:

Quote:
Over the past decade, a number of policy scholars have examined parallel bedrock constituencies in America''s political parties. On one side, the Republicans rely on the near-monolithic support of Christian conservatives, a fact that has been documented ad nauseam by political commentators and the mainstream press for more than 20 years. Less well understood, but equally important, is the role of liberal secularists in shaping the policies of the American left. These people are the religious and political inverse of Christian conservatives: They vote for liberal political candidates and hold left-wing views on issues like school prayer and the death penalty. But most saliently, religion does not play a significant role in their lives. As political scientists Louis Bolce and Gerald De Maio recently demonstrated in the Public Interest (""Our Secularist Democratic Party,"" Fall 2002), liberal secularists are at least as influential in molding the platform of the Democratic Party as are Christian conservatives for the Republicans.

The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.
- Arthur Brooks (excerpted)
http://www.policyreview.org/oct03/brooks.html


Quote:
Do religious people give more money to organizations that help the poor than non-religious individuals? The answer is a resounding "yes" according to a recent article in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion by three sociologists from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. This should be no surprise given religion's history of helping the poor.
http://www.parkridgecenter.org/Page85.html


Quote:
The type of compassion that modern liberals claim as their own peculiar virtue is really a form of pity, milder perhaps than that which lies at the heart of the socialist orthodoxies, but dangerous in its own right. David Hume called pity ""counterfeited"" love. It is the false compassion that results when men exercise their kindness by committee. It is the look in the eyes of the welfare clerk or the public housing official. To be pitied by another man is to stand humiliated before him; however well-intentioned programs grounded in pity may be, they always end by laying low their intended beneficiaries. Pity does not lead to a flourishing in the pitied, though it may provoke their resentment, even their rage; the act of pitying is always a kind of strength condescending to weakness. Love awakens; pity oppresses.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_conservative_compassion.html


Quote:
Poverty Rates
A portion of the population has always been in poverty, sadly. It's instructive to see how that proportion goes up or down, during the liberal Carter and conservative Reagan administrations.
Hint: While Carter proclaimed he was helping the poor, their numbers increased. When Reagan began to get government out of people's way, the percentage of poor decreased. Coincidence?
Private Charitable Giving
Everybody has heard about the "greed and heartlessness of the Reagan era". But a look at what actually happened, tells quite a different story. During the liberal Carter era, charitable giving actually declined as people became accustomed to letting Government take care of the poor. Not until the conservative Reagan era dawned, even while rich and poor alike started to see increases in prosperity, did people begin to take on more responsibility to the poor, and charitable giving skyrocketed.
http://www.little-acorn.com/cvr01.htm


Some of the preceding support a portion of Williams' thesis as does the following:

Quote:
Worse than the practice of conrating culture, viewpoint, and skin color, Sleeper says, is the tendency of some liberal whites to hold blacks to lower standards. Sociologist Andrew Hacker, for example, tries to explain away black crime as a natural response to discrimination. But Sleeper argues that just as the early civil rights movement "invoked moral judgements in order to convict white segregationists of sin" so we all should hold ghetto residents to basic standards of behavior and not deny them moral agency. So too, in university admissions, if part of the argument for integration is to reduce prejudice, he says, all the more reason for blacks to be held to the same standards as whites. Surely, many blacks suffer from inadequate educational training, and consideration of class disadvantage is appropriate; but it is part of liberal racism, Sleeper says, to assume that even the most affluent and educated black family is somehow educationally
disadvantaged.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 12:54 pm
Great article and i couldn't agree more. Dys your just plain wrong.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 12:54 pm
You are not the only one, who is disappointed by me :wink:

And "yes", I've read that a time ago.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 12:57 pm
what I offered in my preceeding post was extreme in point of view only offered as rebutal to what I see as the other side in extreme point of view, neithor liberals nor conservatives hold the higher ground in the treatment of minorities. the egress to a higher quality of life for minorities in the US is to become as "white" as possible thru skin colour, dress, speech and mannerisms. this is manifest bigotry regardless of political persuasion of the party in power.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 01:06 pm
Liberals have always been a true friend of the Black Americans, putting their very lives on the line when necessary. Conservatives exploit every group, including their own kind, for every economic, ideological advantage they can wring out. It is to laugh when they say they want to be on their side.
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 01:10 pm
Quote:
the egress to a higher quality of life for minorities in the US is to become as "white" as possible thru skin colour, dress, speech and mannerisms. this is manifest bigotry regardless of political persuasion of the party in power.


No, see treating htem differently is wrong. Treating them just like a white guy is perfectly fine. And what exactly is "white" dress? "White" speech? and since when do these things belong to race? If your talking about wanting blacks to show up to something like a job interview in a good suit and speaking properly or the ilk that's not called being forced to do "white" things, but rather professionalism.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 01:12 pm
Well I put up some pretty good data for my point of view Edgar. Do you have any for yours?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 01:12 pm
okey-dokey.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 01:14 pm
I'm curious if Dys or Walter or Edgar find anything specific in Williams essay that they think is in error and why?
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 01:20 pm
Well no theres nothing wrong with it thats why that cant find anything.

Liberals really do care for blacks. And thats the problem. They seem to think blacks need to be given advantages or so over whites, because they can't succeed w/o them. Why should be more pampered than whites, or vice versa. Imagine how people would react if a president did things to strive for the "white vote". He would be labeled a racist/nazi/confederate and so on. But if one was to strive for the "black vote", its jsut merely seen as a good move or showing sympathy for blacks. The double standard is just sad. For blacks to succeed they don't need politician's sympathy; they need politicians to treat as they would any other group.
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 05:22 pm
No, it's not racist to say black people are victims. It is to say all black people are victimized. It is racist to set up systems which penalize one set of people for retaining their cultural identity, especially if you claim they are dumb b/c they don't have the same knowledge base as another group of people.

The NAACP has done a world of good to promote equality for all colored people (not just black.) Liberal politicians have long been the friend of the downtrodden, which historically have included a great number of people of color. Dissing them was a mistake on Bush's part. But treating any one group like they maybe should've taken the special little yellow schoolbus for the handicapped is even more foolish. Talking down to any one group insults that group.
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 05:28 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
I'm curious if Dys or Walter or Edgar find anything specific in Williams essay that they think is in error and why?


Not them, but how about this:
Quote:
Senator Kerry and others have criticized Bush for snubbing the NAACP convention. Here's my question to you. If you were president would you speak before a group whose president, Kweisi Mfume, said, "We have a president that's prepared to take us back to the days of Jim Crow segregation and dominance." or whose chairman, Julian Bond, who said, "[President Bush] has appeased the wretched appetites of the extreme right wing and has chosen cabinet officials whose devotion to the Confederacy is nearly canine in its uncritical affection."?

It's always been my contention that the conservative vision shows far greater respect for blacks than the liberal you-can't-make-it-without-us vision. For decades there have been buy-off-the-black-vote presidential appointments like secretaries of labor, health and human services, education, and housing. But it's been conservative presidents who have appointed blacks to top positions of responsibility and authority such as Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Republican presidents didn't make these appointments to buy off the black vote. They chose the best people around who just happened to be black Americans.


He seems to be forgetting that without the liberals willing to step up and protest laws of "separate but equal," there would be no Condeleeza Rices or Clarence Thomases out there in gov't appointments.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 06:16 pm
You need to reread your history on the civil rights movement. There were more republicans who voted for civil rights then there were Democrats. It was over 80% of reps that voted and just over 60% of dems that voted.

I would say the Republicans were the lead votes for civil rights not Democrats.
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 07:26 pm
Baldimo wrote:
You need to reread your history on the civil rights movement. There were more republicans who voted for civil rights then there were Democrats. It was over 80% of reps that voted and just over 60% of dems that voted.

I would say the Republicans were the lead votes for civil rights not Democrats.


How old are you, Baldimo? B/c that's a pretty lame argument. It's not about "republican vs. democrat," but rather about legal segregation and disfranchisement of a people within the United States. http://www.jimcrowhistory.org/history/transition.htm
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 07:31 pm
princesspupule wrote:
How old are you, Baldimo? B/c that's a pretty lame argument. It's not about "republican vs. democrat," but rather about legal segregation and disfranchisement of a people within the United States. http://www.jimcrowhistory.org/history/transition.htm


Quote:
He seems to be forgetting that without the liberals willing to step up and protest laws of "separate but equal," there would be no Condeleeza Rices or Clarence Thomases out there in gov't appointments.


It was very relevant because of your statement of liberals helping make sure that there are Dr. Rices in places of authority. I was going off of your post and what you had said. Besides age isn't really an issue. I sure I'm about the same age as you so it doesn't matter what my age is.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 07:32 pm
the "democrats" mentioned above were indeed Dixiecrats (closet republicans) and it was most likely the Selma Alabama incident that caused the final passage of the 1965 civil rights act that had been proposed by JFK in 1964.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 07:33 pm
Can we have an adult conversation and refrain from personal insults as much as possible on this thread? Racism is an emotionalily charged topic as it is without pouring gasoline on the fire.

Baldimo is correct that without the GOP, Johnson never would have gotten through the Civil Rights reforms as a majority of Democrats opposed them at the time; but we have to give a Democrat president the credit for pushing it too. There is plenty of praise and plenty of condemnation to go around in both parties.

Walter Williams is on record that it was good and right to end slavery, and even though it caused some problems for black families, it was good to end segregation. Affirmative action was necessary in the 1970's and 1980's to get people used to minorities in the workplace.

Now it is 30 years later and people like Williams say that battle was fought, the war was won, minorities have parity in opportunity and earning power, and it is time for America to become truly color blind. Others continue to think of black people as an underclass victimized by the system.

Which attitude is racist do you think?
0 Replies
 
 

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