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Conservatives, Liberals and Blacks

 
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 10:06 am
That was good reading Foxy and I thank you. It seems I had simplified the history of Civil rights legislation. Of course it's not just black and white(no pun intended), there's a lot of grey areas. I would summarise it as such: In the early 60's The liberals INITIATED and the conservatives SUPPORTED major legislation which broke the logjam of segregation policies.
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 10:19 am
Baldimo wrote:
To princess:

Do you have any idea why there is such a gap in the earning of white and black people? I would have to say that one of the biggest reasons has to do with a large % of the black population is single-family homes. I saw an estimate that said 70% of black children are born into single-family homes. This means there is only one person working, or not working in the case of welfare families. With only one person working it puts a large dent on how much money can be made.

People try to make it sound like it is the fault of white people but that isn't true. There is a large portion of the black community that doesn't take care of what they create. Many black males don't stick around after getting a woman pregnant and leave that woman in poverty due her being on her own. I would like to see what the wealth status is of black families that have both parents around with at least both working, which is the case for most white families?



Chart breaking down income by race.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/img/incpov02/fig08.jpg

Well, no offense, but what you say sounds negative, and is offensive to blacks.
Quote:
There is a large portion of the black community that doesn't take care of what they create.
Like white men don't do this too? PUH-LEESE! Rolling Eyes I don't really think that is the reason for the income disparity. Can you offer some stats to back up your position? People separate about equally nowadays, it's not just a black people thang to have only one parent in the home. If it's across the board, it cancels out.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 11:09 am
Well here's some more Williams that doesn't have a lot of stats but is a thoughtful analysis. I disagree with Williams that the white man does not bear some of this burden--it was mostly the white congresspersons who put a welfare system into operation that made having the father gone from the home 'normal', and who insisted on 'special consideration' re grades, promotion, college entry etc. All these things were well intentioned but resulted in unintentional negative consequences.

The Cos Again
by Walter E. Williams

Bill Cosby rattled the cages again a fortnight ago in his address before Jesse Jackson's 33rd Annual Rainbow/PUSH Coalition conference in Chicago. Let's look at some of his remarks.

Cosby told the audience that being poor had a different meaning to older generations and the "housing project was set up for you to move in, move up, and move out." Cosby's family moved out of Philadelphia's Richard Allen housing project, and so did mine. I don't know what Cosby's mother told him about being poor but my mother frequently said, in the middle of one scolding or another, "We have a beer pocketbook but champagne tastes." One of my grandmother's favorite admonitions was, "You don't have to be rich to be clean." Yesterday's gross material poverty among blacks is all but gone. In all too many cases, it has been replaced by the worse kind of poverty - poverty of the spirit.

Bill Cosby also admonished blacks to stop blaming the white man for our problems. "This is a time, ladies and gentlemen," Cosby said, "when we have to turn the mirror around." He's right again. Nobody can sensibly argue that racial discrimination has altogether disappeared. The relevant question is: how much of what we see can be explained by racial discrimination? The 70 percent illegitimacy rate among blacks is devastating, not to mention unprecedented, but can it be blamed on discrimination? Is the white man responsible for today's all time high number of black single-parent families? What about the crime rate that has turned many black neighborhoods, once stable and civilized into battlegrounds and economic wastelands?

Cosby also talked about a pathological culture that has emerged among many blacks referring to one another as "niggers" and music that refers to black women as "bitches" and "whores." Added to that pathology are the verbal and physical reprisals against blacks who speak and carry themselves properly and seek to excel academically. I'd sure like to hear the argument for the case where hard work and academic excellence makes one a race traitor - acting white.

What to do? Addressing Bill Cosby's critique is a long challenging journey, but as with any journey, we're closer to its end by taking the first step, even if it's a small first step. When the fall semester begins, teachers should refuse to accept "I be", "Why you ain't?" and "Where you is?" They might ask students, who use such language, whether they know anyone who's successful and speaks that way, except Snoop Doggy Dog. They might also refuse to accept poor enunciation like "axe," for ask, and "wiff" for with. Check it out with Cosby if you don't believe me: none of the Richard Allen kids that he and I grew up with spoke that way.

Inner-city school teachers should show some honesty and let students and their parents know that those A's and B's received on past report cards are phony and at best only C's, D's and possibly F's anywhere else. Fraudulent grades exacerbate other problems. When a black kid has all A's and B's and makes the dean's list, what will he and his parents blame for failure to get a decent SAT score, get into college, or get a job? They're going to blame it on racial discrimination. All they'll see is white kids with A's and B's do well and their kids with the same grades do not.

Finally, along with these tiny first steps, black parents, teachers, politicians and civil rights organizations should condemn the conduct of young blacks who do not take advantage of today's educational opportunities - condemn it as a gross betrayal of the memory, struggle, sacrifice, sweat and blood of our ancestors.

Walter E. Williams
c31-04
July 12, 2004
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/04/cos.html
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 11:23 am
Panzade, you are correct for the most part I think. There is plenty of praise and condemnation to go around re the slow and sometimes painful eradication of racism from our laws and national psyche. Prior to and since the Civil Rights Act of 1964, initiatives to further the process were introduced and pushed by both liberals and conservatives. The liberals definitely drove the initiatives of the late 50's and throughout the 60's with the freedom riders, marchers, sit-ins, etc. and I was right there with them. It is the conservatives who have mostly pushed for colorblindness in the last decades as they believe any other tact is patronizing and insulting to minorities. It probably wouldn't have happened, at least as soon as it did, without a lot of help from both camps.
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princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 11:36 am
panzade wrote:
I would summarise it as such: In the early 60's The liberals INITIATED and the conservatives SUPPORTED major legislation which broke the logjam of segregation policies.


I agree w/that statement, but it can also coexist w/the statement that minorities are still victimized simply due to being minorities. Some groups get victimized worse than other groups. They aren't necessarily victims, but often are victimized. Legislation can still be enacted to minimize the effects still felt by minority groups across the nation, or it can pretend that there are no such effects. Politicians can pretend there aren't any effects, or acknowledge them still being there.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 11:38 am
"you are correct for the most part I think"

Sigh. As close to agreement as I'm likely to get from you Foxfire. My mother thanks you.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 11:52 am
Princess, that was then, this is now. I have a sneaking suspicion that racism is alive and well though under the covers. I believe Williams and Cosby are right in asking minorities to take a bigger role in eradicating racism. Basically we are all in agreement here.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 12:08 pm
Panzade, why does your mother thank me? Smile

We really are in quite a bit of agreement. Call it subbornness I guess, but I am not willing to concede all the initiatives in the fight to eliminate racism to the liberals or Democrats; and I sure would strongly resist any attempt by the conservatives or Republicans to take all or most of the credit. It was a Republican president who pushed and signed the Emancipation Proclamation, and the first of the great push to break down the barriors came under Eisenhower. Roosevelt's record is a mixed bag, but I have to give Truman, Kennedy, and Johnson their fair share of the credit.

Here's another interesting little program giving a historical chronology of American racism, Supreme Court rulings, and various initiatives:

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/jbalkin/brown/1876.html
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 01:00 pm
Another of my favorite writers addressing the issue of
good intentions sometimes producing unintended
bad consequences:

Half a Century after Brown - Thomas Sowell
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell.html

Half a Century after Brown - Part II - Thomas Sowell
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell.html

Half a Century after Brown - Part III - Thomas Sowell
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell.html
(This one isn't really about racism but is the third part of
the series and is tied to Brown)
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