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Open Thread - Politics Plus

 
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 07:53 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Re: blatham (Post 6104032)
Quote:
What does Trump want?

He's in for the money. What else?

Far too simplistic a thesis, I think. Did Sadaam want money? Part of the story only. Did Adolf or Stalin want only money? Hardly.

Trump is an authoritarian. And a bully. That stuff is about ego and about dominance. Money is a perk and a means, not the key.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 08:06 am
@blatham,
I feel pretty secure in calling bullshit on your biased hyperbole. bruit art is imperfect and needs support from a variety of sources... Where I beat you on this subject is I am aware of my biases, and the need for a wide net.
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 08:24 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Where I beat you on this subject is I am aware of my biases, and the need for a wide net.

Sorry, Lash, but I'm not interested in playing your game. You are now on ignore.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 08:32 am
@blatham,
Quote:
Trump is an authoritarian.

Maybe you're right, but I'd rather think he is doing the con of his lifetime.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 08:35 am
I hope this is keeping to the purpose of the thread. I read a headline on yahoo. clicked to the original source and wondered if or where I could put in the forum because though it is a new article it dates back to a past subject. I also didn't know that this wasn't already reported in the news back when the subject was discussed a lot. But it hits a lot topics discussed now, corruption, right wing influence, and Israel/Iran.

Senator Tom Cotton Received Nearly $1 Mil To Oppose Iran Deal

Quote:
The historic nuclear accord with Iran, dubbed the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, was negotiated for months and finally signed by Iran and the U.S., UK, Russia, China, France (the P5) and Germany (+1) on 14 July, 2015.

Under the arrangement Iran has pledged to eliminate its stockpile of medium-enriched uranium, decrease its stockpile of low-enriched uranium by 98% and reduce approximately two-thirds the total number of gas centrifuges for 13 years.

In exchange for Iran’s adherence to these terms, the UN Security Council members have agreed to reduce sanctions on the Islamic Republic. For example, the U.S. is obligated to end all “secondary” sanctions, meaning those imposed on other countries to prohibit their business with Iran. The European Union will lift its own sanctions, effectively unfreezing some $100 billion in assets–this number is an estimate from the U.S. Treasury Department–currently tied up in overseas bank accounts. In addition, the member states will refrain from imposing any new sanctions on Iran.

The deal is objectively good but perhaps more importantly, it has allowed both the West and Iran to declare victories through diplomacy, avoiding any military action.

Israel remains obstinate on the deal, as it was all throughout negotiations; Prime Minister Netanyahu even went so far as to bypass President Obama and give a fiery speech before the United States Congress in March, lambasting the deal and an open relationship with Iran.

Speaking before the largely Republican Congress, Netanyahu said “This deal won’t be a farewell to arms,” to which the lawmakers applauded. “It would be a farewell to arms control. And the Middle East would soon be crisscrossed by nuclear tripwires. A region where small skirmishes can trigger big wars would turn into a nuclear tinderbox.”

As yet, no bigger wars have been triggered by the Iran deal, and early indications show the deal will have a positive impact on strengthening relations with the West.

But as a report by PressTV alleges, the Israel lobby paid off Republican Senators in Congress to oppose the deal. On Wednesday, it was revealed that Senator Tom Cotton, a Republican from Arkansas received nearly $1 million from the Emergency Committee for Israel, a U.S. based rightwing political advocacy organization.

The group paid $960,250 to Cotton’s campaign, soon after which he lead the writing of an open-letter, signed by 47 Republicans, stating that a GOP White House would not adhere to any accords with Iran.

Cotton has kowtowed to the Israel lobby in the past, just as most other Republican lawmakers in Congress. During a July visit to Israel Cotton claimed “I will stand with Prime Minister Netanyahu and Israel and work with my colleagues in Congress to stop this deal.”

Aside from obstructionism against the Iran deal, Netanyahu and the Israel lobby collude with Republican lawmakers to maintain the occupation of Palestine, securing huge sums of military aid and characterizing opponents as anti-Israel.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 08:53 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I'd rather think he is doing the con of his lifetime.

I think you've got that right. He's as great a con man as I've probably ever seen. But though money looks to be always a part of his motivation, I don't think his present activity in question is driven mainly by that.

Aside from the teasing and minimization of Trump that has long been a feature of press coverage of the guy, there was a correspondents' dinner some years back where Trump was in attendance and Obama said a few sentences about him that made Trump look absolutely foolish and insignificant. And there is nothing so damaging to an authoritarian or bully as that stuff.

I'm certain to 100% that when Trump now lays his head on the chantilly lace pillow (very high thread count - it's used in laboratories to filter out electrons) he is gloating about the present state of affairs. Gloating is his very favoritist thing. It's what gives his existence meaning.

Which is what makes the next few months something of a thriller.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 08:58 am
@blatham,
So what? He wants to be another Mussolini?

I find that hard to believe, but must admit that I can't even think of why not. I'm having very hard time taking him seriously, I guess.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:01 am
@revelette2,
That's very interesting indeed, revelette. But I'm quite unsurprised. Cotton has been mentored by Kristol for some time and is clearly the neoconservative great white hope. Let's note the genesis of The Emergency Committee for Israel...
Quote:
The group's board members include Weekly Standard editor William Kristol, former Republican presidential candidate Gary Bauer, and conservative writer Rachel Abrams,[2] wife of Elliott Abrams.[3] Noah Pollak is its executive director.[2]
Wikipedia entry
Liz Cheney is also involved. And a ps on her... she's considering a run for a Congressional seat in Wyoming.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:02 am
@Lash,
Wiki is by and large a reliable source of information. In fact, it is one of the most reliable sources out there, perhaps the best thing to come out of the internet yet. A true knowledge site, with the right tools to weed out manipulations, lies, etc.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:11 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
So what? He wants to be another Mussolini?

As I've said before, he doesn't want to be the President of the United States. Such a position is beneath him. And it would be wayyyyyy too much work. He wants to be Pharaoh.

But he lives in a modern semi-sorta-democracy with a semi-sorta-free press. He can't be Pharaoh here or a Mussolini. He has to display his ego and dominance differently through media attention, grandiloquent posturing, and bullying (notice how he always frames things as "I'm a winner". Axiomatically, those he is talking to or covering his speeches, indeed everyone else are losers. Get me? He's a reality TV Pharaoh.

I doubt he'll get the nomination, though he might. So the interesting thing I'm watching is how he deals with being a loser in such prominent display.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:15 am
@blatham,
What is actually worse, the Israel lobbies' spread their influence around, though they seem to be spreading more to the right, a lot of democrats also receive money from them which in turn helps the State of Israel and we end (as in US tax payers) up supporting it as well. As a result I don't understand why the US is considered an "honest broker" in the Palestinian/Israeli dispute. (would say crises but it has been going on for so long...not sure what to call it.) In any event, we say publically we don't support the Israeli settlements, yet we keep supporting Israel so we really do support and facilitate the Israeli settlement expansions which just fueling the ongoing crises.

Don't mean to go on a rant, just saying that the corruption in Israeli lobbies' is not limited to the right wing establishment.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:17 am
@blatham,
Now you're the one not taking him seriously. He's way ahead of Cruz in the polls. How could he NOT get nominated?
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:19 am
@blatham,
I heard he filed for bankruptcy again, or was that a onion type rumor? If true, he could hardly be in it for the money. Trump just represents a large portion of a certain segment of the "ugly Americans" in plain sight. He is a glorified salesman and knows his customers, like when he justified his support of Bill Clinton back in 2008, he says whatever he has to say to any given audience. In my opinion, Trump supporters are suckers just like those who invested in his businesses which went belly up, I am not sure he himself know what he believes.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:30 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
How could he NOT get nominated?

I won't get into the complexities of that. Just too much work. Let's watch and see how this plays out.

But even if we presume he'll get the nomination, then he's really up against it. His profile is WAY higher (everybody in the frigging world will be watching - I live in British Columbia and there's no one I've talked to in the last six months who doesn't know Trump and who doesn't laugh and shake their heads at his emergence as GOP polling leader) and so he'll lose in the biggest most evident manner possible. To a woman.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:33 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
Don't mean to go on a rant, just saying that the corruption in Israeli lobbies' is not limited to the right wing establishment.

I know. The Walt/Mearsheimer paper on AIPAC gave us a very good picture of the tentacles of this lobbying and propaganda effort.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:34 am
@revelette2,
re Trump
I have read nothing on new bankruptcy filing by Trump so expect it's not true.

And yes, Trump supporters are suckers.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 09:54 am
@blatham,
Quote:
he'll lose in the biggest most evident manner possible. To a woman.

I certainly hope so. He can't beat Clinton. Heck I don't think he can beat Sanders.

This said, I was dead sure that somebody as stupid as W would never get ellected...
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 10:29 am
@Olivier5,
Don't underestimate the stupidity of the American voter!

Now with Cruz having to deal with his mother's birth certificate and the tea parties disgrace - after all he's of Cuban descent and not white, Cruz will fall way behind where Rubio and Bush are hovering around. Fiorina and Rand are on their way out. Carlson? Not even his wife could take him seriously, so the only one left is Trump.

Frankly, he represents today's American trend of the know-it-all-in-your-face rich people who haven't accomplished much except accumulated money with shady deals. He's the male Kardashian and why everyone wonders how these people can even be famous, they still flock to them like feathers to the goose.

It's a phenomenon only existent in the United States. I am pretty certain he'll win the nomination.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 10:36 am
@CalamityJane,
Quote:
It's a phenomenon only existent in the United States.

I agree with everything else you say, but I doubt that quote very much. Think Berlusconi.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2016 10:40 am
@Olivier5,
Oh yes, how could I have forgotten him, but then again, the Italian mentality is in general more "macho" compared to the American one. A Berlusconi was not so shocking to the Italians per se.
 

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