Open Thread - Politics Plus

Thanks, edgar. I am an economics dummy. My interests and studies have been more concerned with propaganda and the uses of language and symbols to obfuscate and deceive. But I'm sure others will take a keen interest in that link. I will say that I suspect Hillary is not as much of a reformer as I'd like but I'm frankly not even sure if I have that right.

Good morning, darling.
What on earth would be dastardly in turning page-corners? Books are for use. Stephen Sondheim has confessed to owning "the most dog-eared thesaurus in existence". The books in my library that remain in pristine condition are the one's that aren't very important to me.

And it's always been interesting to see marks and notes from some earlier reader. One of my favorite activities at university was sitting in the cafeteria with other classmates and talking about text passages and ideas. Reading notes or marks in a second-hand book has commonly led me to wish that earlier reader was available for conversation. There are exceptions, of course, such as "I disagree!!!" or "That is SUCH bullshit" with no further explanation. If someone else ever gets and reads my copy of the Holy Bible, they'll be in that situation.

Worthwhile piece in the Times this morning on the present chaos the GOP is suffering...

http://nyti.ms/1PQ9Yx4

There's a lot one could say here. Is this broadly-held notion/prediction an example of "conventional wisdom" that will be proved to be over-blown? Or if some dramatic split on the right does come about, what might be the consequences that we liberal types won't find to our liking? Etc. But I'll leave it there.

Nobody knows until the election is over.

Most people appear to think habitual Republicans and Democrats will give in and vote their party choice, as usual. They could be right, this time. The dynamics are changing. Not sure if enough are upset this time around or if people will erupt next election, but I don't see how it could fail to happen, eventually.

NOt quite sure what you propose might happen, edgar. I gather you refer to what appears to be a growing anti-establishment sentiment and I gather you see something the same or similar on right and left.

I believe there will be a revolt against the perceived class of rulers with the stranglehold on the working people. Whether it will be with a Trumplike person or a Sanders remains to be seen

I'm glad I'm no longer in the 'working people' category. Trump scares me, and Sanders is too mild to be an effective president.

Since it's an open thread, let's go overseas today:
New Years Eve changed Germany practically overnight. The scene is the inner city of Cologne where customary people celebrate around midnight the New Year. This time it was different though: violent sexual assaults perpetrated against women by large groups of men who were of different ethnicity. Eye witnesses describe a mob of "North Africans or Arabs by appearance" forming circles around women with the intent of robbing them and sexually assaulting them. Several women were raped.

Police was no where to be found, even though they've interviewed some police officers stationed nearby for a local TV station. They all stated it was a rather quiet night and no one had seen anything unusual.

Now these things (massive sexual assaults by mobs) don't happen in Germany, this is unprecedented. Within the next days, over 180 women pressed charges and the media wants answers from police and politicians alike.

Germany has taken in over 800,000 refugees this past year - many of them Muslim men and we have many right wing groups demonstrating against these refugees, many times it escalates in violence.

After what happened in Cologne, these right wing nuts are confirmed in their idiocy that all Muslims need to be deported. Politicians are at a loss and Angela Merkel is trying to be diplomatic to prevent further escalations between refugees and right wing movements, however, daily clashes between Pegida (right wing) and refugees are seen everywhere.

I am not sure what the solution is for all this - the politicians, especially Angela Merkel, wanted to show the world how progressive Germany is, but are the Germans ready for it?

Politically, I see some parallels to the United States. A Bernie Sanders (with Elizabeth Warren as his VP) would be the best candidate for the lower class of America as his programs would elevate their financial welfare, yet only a small percentage is ready for Sanders. A much bigger percentage is drawn to a loud mouth like Donald Trump who has absolutely no experience, nor interest in the day to day operation of a president.

I admit, compared to Dr. Carlson, he is a breath of fresh air, but his air has become stale fast. I probably have to immigrate to another country should he win.

That's my speech for Sunday!

And that's a mouth full. Our country has had its share of ups and downs within our political system, but seems to have weathered them pretty well. I'm confident our country is strong enough to weather the current 'crisis' that involves just one person like Trump. The educated will defeat Trump at future elections.

You can't hold Sanders' convictions and be mild.

Yes, cicerone, the educated ones, but what about the remaining 80 %?

Sounds like a setup, an ugly one, but of course I don't know. If it's real, I think of it as a view of catastrophe.

You know, osso, more and more voices come forward saying the same thing.
It was a set-up by the right wing to create even more controversy and aversion towards the refugees.

Some politicians - not wanting to create more hysteria - downplayed the incident and indirectly blamed the women for the sexual assaults. This didn't go over well either. I see why they would want to downplay it, but victimizing the victims again, wasn't the answer either.

We went through the most serious economic crash since the great depression where millions? of homes were lost, billions in savings or personal value, a huge jump in unemployment and... the US voted then twice voted in a bright, charismatic, talented and exceedingly calm new president.

I don't see it happening, edgar. There's little comparison now in what is happening on the left contrasted with what is happening on the right - where revolutionary zeal has been slowly fostered to ripeness through fomenting a narrative of crisis which isn't real - Sharia isn't coming, the black helicopters aren't whirling above, the churches aren't shut and christians aren't locked up, etc.

Another huge crisis, a real one, might do it but otherwise I think not.

I'm sort of tuned into that, rightly or not, by some books I've been reading and will eventually quote stuff from. A couple of them are memoirs and another few are fictions that seem well researched (but what do I know). The immediate book is Alan Furst's The Foreign Correspondent (thank you, Tsar, for the tip re Furst).

The memoirs are strong, and I also like Furst, so far. More on the What are you Reading Thread by myself and others relatively recently.

I haven't been following the events/politics in Germany related to this issue so have little of value to add here. We all know, of course, that there is a strident white-nationalist extreme element in a number of European countries and it's little surprise to see these voices rising now. Because this stuff is highly dramatic, the media pick it up and run with it - this sells papers and gathers eyeballs.

The other day here in Vancouver, when a group of Syrian refugees were being welcomed, an individual rode by on a bike and pepper-sprayed them. http://bit.ly/1Zf3kDk News media picked it up quickly. But it was one act by one guy.

Here's the text on a sign held up by a protester at a Trump campaign speech in Vermont...

Well, I conceded it may take another election beyond this one. The great recession was a different animal. The only way it avoided repeating the Great Depression, in my view, was because the powers that be had it all planned in advance to make the working people carry the burden alone, this time. What I am talking now is the rich and conservative take away of social programs, until there is nothing left, while military expenditures and neverending wars continue to grow. Open bribery of the congress keeps pushing for it.

As I have said before, I wonder how many republicans (middle class) would lose their social benefits based on their party politics nationally and locally. I can't believe all republicans are self-sufficient to the degree they don't accept social programs voted in my democrats. They don't mind losing those benefits?