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McCain condemns ad, Kerry's commander backs off

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 08:50 am
They're grasping at straws only to find out the straws are on fire and become burnt offerings.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 09:09 am
edgar:

They have failed to tear anything down, save their own credibility and reputations.

Much has been written about our fellow Houstonian John O'Neill (whose GOP ties go back to Nixon). Not much has been disclosed about the other co-author, Jerome Corsi. The good folks at Media Matters have done the research:

Quote:
• Corsi on Islam: "a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion"

• Corsi on Catholicism: "Boy buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press"

• Corsi on Muslims: "RAGHEADS are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together"

• Corsi on "John F*ing Commie Kerry": "After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal grandparents that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry?"

• Corsi on Senator "FAT HOG" Clinton: "Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo or anything, is she?"


Those are Corsi's own words as posted on FreeRepublic.com.

And besides those quoted above, he has described Chelsea Clinton as "Chubby Chelsie"; referred to Janet Reno as "Janet Rhino"; called Katie Couric "Little Katie Communist"; suggested Kerry was "practicing Judaism"; and expressed the wish that a small plane that had crashed into a building in Los Angeles had instead crashed into the set of NBC'S The West Wing, thereby killing actor Martin Sheen.

See any similarities between Corsi and some of our newer members here?

These smears and lies are failing.

The really sad part is that they know it, and they are already busy manufacturing something else for rollout next week (to counteract the stock market meltdown, the skyrocketing price of gasoline, the anemic jobs numbers, and the latest terror scare).

Bush won't be "turning corners" as of tomorrow, because everyone senses all he is doing is turning us around in circles.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Aug, 2004 09:19 am
I notice that the closer we get to election day, the fiercer the fighting and the more important the arrests of "significant" terrorists. Of course they want it to build to a crescendo by Nov. that shock and awe voters into baaa-ing all the way to the polling booths.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Aug, 2004 04:39 pm
I think Kerry's time in the service was honorable and I find it despicable that anyone would, for partisan purposes, try to make it sound bad. Oh, BOOHOO, in 1971, Kerry tried to get this country out of Viet Nam. That sures gets a few veterans' panties all twisted up. Which is weird since most people now see that Viet Nam was a hellhole and NOT the place where the US and our beloved troops should have been. But I'm not going THERE. Let's just remember that prior to Kerry speaking out as a Viet Nam Vet Against the War, he was considered a superlative officer.

Quote:
In his officer's evaluation (during his term on the frigate Gridley), Kerry was described as:

"A most capable officer who demonstrates a high degree of maturity beyond his age and experience. His division's morale is one of the highest on the ship due to his dynamic leadership."

But retired Navy Capt. James F. Kelly, who drafted that report as the Gridley's executive officer, recently condemned Kerry for protesting the Vietnam War while he and others were still fighting.

"Many of us felt betrayed that one of our own, a decorated hero, gave comfort to the enemy by such actions," Kelly said in a letter to a Navy journal.


It is debatable whether speaking one's mind gives comfort to the enemy... to me, that is a thought-quasher used to negate protests. Are there any here who can say that there were no atrocities committed in Viet Nam? I ask because my childhood friend came home from Viet Nam and killed himself... he said he couldn't stand the memories. My husband was in Viet Nam and has told me how glad he is that he was in reconnaissance high above the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Does that mean his service was dishonorable because he wasn't down in the jungle?

This mindset of "loyalty above all" and a general acceptance of this country's misdeeds is no more amazing to me then an officer's willingness to speak out. On the one hand, we demand that those in the military follow civilized behavior, aka the Geneva Convention. On the other, we complain when the do and describe those actions as disloyal. What gives?

Just for the record, here's a timeline to ponder. Some people "forget" that Kerry served in the Navy for more than two years -- from August 1966 to August 1968 before VOLUNTEERING for Swift Boat duty. That time included six months on the Gridley in the waters off Vietnam.

Quote:
Key dates in Kerry's military service
Feb. 18, 1966 - Enlists in the U.S. Navy

June 1966 - Graduates from Yale

Aug. 22, 1966 - Reports to Officer Candidate School, Newport, RI

Dec. 16, 1966 - Commissioned as ensign in Navy Reserve

Jan. 3, 1967 - Reports to Naval Schools Command, San Francisco

June 8, 1967 - Reports to guided-missile frigate Gridley, Long Beach Naval Station

Feb. 9, 1968 - Gridley deploys to Western Pacific and Vietnam

July 20, 1968 - Departs Gridley for swift boat training

Aug. 25, 1968 - Begins swift boat officer training at Naval Amphibious Base Coronado

Nov. 17, 1968 - Reports to Coastal Squadron 1, Cam Ranh Bay, Vietnam

Dec. 2, 1968 - Receives minor wound, earning first Purple Heart, during nighttime patrol near Cam Ranh

Dec. 5, 1968 - Takes command of swift boat PCF-44

Dec. 6, 1968 - Moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Mekong Delta

Jan. 30, 1969 - Takes command of PCF-94

Feb. 20, 1969 - Receives minor wound, second Purple Heart, during ambush in Mekong Delta

Feb. 28, 1969 - Kills Viet Cong fighter who threatened swift boat with a rocket launcher, earning Silver Star

March 13, 1969 - Saves life of Green Beret Lt. James Rassmann during ambush; receives Bronze Star; arm injured; receives third Purple Heart

Late March 1969 - Departs Vietnam eight months early, under three-wounds provision

April 11, 1969 - Reports to Military Sea Transportation Service, Atlantic, as admiral's aide

Jan. 3, 1970 - Leaves active duty early

May 23, 1970 - Marries Julia Thorne; joins Vietnam Veterans Against the War

April 22, 1971 - Addresses Senate Foreign Relations Committee

November 1971 - Leaves Vietnam Veterans Against the War

-Compiled by Copley News Service correspondent Otto Kreisher - San Diego Union-Tribune website
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Aug, 2004 11:36 pm
From the official Kerry-Edwards Website:
Quote:

Kerry Reunites with Fellow Veteran in Iowa

Veteran says Kerry saved his life in combat; has not seen him since 1969
January 17, 2004

For Immediate Release

Des Moines, IA - Former Lieutenant John Kerry was reunited today with fellow Vietnam veteran Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life during combat.

On March 13, 1969, Rassmann, a Green Beret, was traveling down the Bay Hap river in a boat behind Kerry's when both were ambushed by exploding land mines and enemy fire coming from the shore. Kerry was hit in the arm, while a mine blew Rassmann's boat out of the water. With enemy fire coming from both sides of the river and swift boats evacuating from the area, Kerry's crew chose to turn their boat toward the ambush to save Rassmann ...


Rassmannn himself, quoted in The Aug 10, 2004 WSJ OnLine
Quote:
... While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94,[/size] throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath ...


OK ... same incident, same participants, 2 different scenarios. Just who's boat was Rassmann on before he wasn't on it?

That apart, I note the ironic coincidence of J.F. Kerry's own Holiday in Cambodia and the fact the group Dead Kennedys had a song by that name. At least the music can be proven; the records are available.

Kerry knew he couldn't run on his record as an elected servant of the people, so he chose to run on his much shorter, less documented, and likely in his estimation much further from memory and scrutiny, military record. He screwed up, and brought every bit of this inconvenience on himself.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 04:43 am
Oh, back for more, eh, Timber? I reiterate - It depends on the eyewitness viewer's politics how this gets reported.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 04:48 am
Rassmann was on O'Reilly last nite, he wasn't convincing at all, in fact he seemed pretty sheepish like the truth of a scheme that was cooked up was about to be outed.

I guess Therayzah needs to buy better actors for imposter John.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 10:00 am
Here's an idea timber:

Events that happened 30 years ago, in a war situation, may be remembered differently.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 10:22 am
Here is an idea Cyclo:

When the overwhelming number of combatants that were there remember it one way, and Kerry and three of his subordanents remember it is another, I'll go with the overwhelming eye witness evidence.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 10:25 am
scrolll
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 11:04 am
I would prefer to go with George W Bush's account of Kerry's Vietnam exploits, being as how he wasn't there at all. Where was he anyway?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 11:13 am
Shame on the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush
August 10, 2004
Wall Street Journal COMMENTARY
DOW JONES REPRINTS
Shame on the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush*
By JIM RASSMANN
August 10, 2004; Page A10

*(See Corrections & Amplifications item below.)

I came to know Lt. John Kerry during the spring of 1969. He and his swift boat crew assisted in inserting our Special Forces team and our Chinese Nung soldiers into operational sites in the Cau Mau Peninsula of South Vietnam. I worked with him on many operations and saw firsthand his leadership, courage and decision-making ability under fire.

On March 13, 1969, John Kerry's courage and leadership saved my life.

While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.

When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.

For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, our country's third highest award for bravery under fire. I learned only this past January that the Navy awarded John the Bronze Star with Combat V for his valor. The citation for this award, signed by the Commander of U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam, Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, read, "Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service." To this day I am grateful to John Kerry for saving my life. And to this day I still believe that he deserved the Silver Star for his courage.

It has been many years since I served in Vietnam. I returned home, got married, and spent many years as a deputy sheriff for Los Angeles County. I retired in 1989 as a lieutenant. It has been a long time since I left Vietnam, but I think often of the men who did not come home with us.

I am neither a politician nor an organizer. I am a retired police officer with a passion for orchids. Until January of this year, the only public presentations I made were about my orchid hobby. But in this presidential election, I had to speak out; I had to tell the American people about John Kerry, about his wisdom and courage, about his vision and leadership. I would trust John Kerry with my life, and I would entrust John Kerry with the well-being of our country.

Nobody asked me to join John's campaign. Why would they? I am a Republican, and for more than 30 years I have largely voted for Republicans. I volunteered for his campaign because I have seen John Kerry in the worst of conditions. I know his character. I've witnessed his bravery and leadership under fire. And I truly know he will be a great commander in chief.

Now, 35 years after the fact, some Republican-financed Swift Boat Veterans for Bush are suddenly lying about John Kerry's service in Vietnam; they are calling him a traitor because he spoke out against the Nixon administration's failed policies in Vietnam. Some of these Republican-sponsored veterans are the same ones who spoke out against John at the behest of the Nixon administration in 1971. But this time their attacks are more vicious, their lies cut deep and are directed not just at John Kerry, but at me and each of his crewmates as well. This hate-filled ad asserts that I was not under fire; it questions my words and Navy records. This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency, people who don't understand the bond of those who serve in combat.

As John McCain noted, the television ad aired by these veterans is "dishonest and dishonorable." Sen. McCain called on President Bush to condemn the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush ad. Regrettably, the president has ignored Sen. McCain's advice.

Does this strategy of attacking combat Vietnam veterans sound familiar? In 2000, a similar Republican smear campaign was launched against Sen. McCain. In fact, the very same communications group, Spaeth Communications, that placed ads against John McCain in 2000 is involved in these vicious attacks against John Kerry. Texas Republican donors with close ties to George W. Bush and Karl Rove crafted this "dishonest and dishonorable" ad. Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam. They insult and defame all of us who served in Vietnam.

But when the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have cleared, a man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for duty when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall and proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of smear campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform. Swift Boat Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame.

Mr. Rassmann, a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, served with the U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group in Vietnam 1968-69.

* Corrections & Amplifications:

This commentary misstated the name of a group of Vietnam veterans; the correct name is the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB109209179651686933,00.html
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 11:16 am
LOL, Kerry is getting desperate, he is squeezing his one or two vietnam supporters dry to battle the overwhelming evidence of his dishonerable conduct.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 11:47 am
Quote:
Kerry's Cambodia Question

He says he served there, critics say not so.
The answer's crucial




John Edwards is supposed to be a great lawyer but at the recent Democratic convention he made a rookie mistake: He raised a question without knowing the answer. "If you have any questions about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him," he said.
Edwards meant Kerry's "band of brothers" - the small entourage of vets who served under him in Vietnam and now strongly support him for President.

Evidently, Edwards did not know at the time that almost every officer who commanded Kerry or served alongside him opposes his candidacy. Worse, they have formed a group, Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, that claims more than 250 members.

Their case against Kerry is set forth in a new book, "Unfit for Command," co-written by longtime Kerry critic John O'Neill, and in a TV ad from the group.

Kerry's critics in arms allege that he didn't deserve one of his Purple Hearts and his Bronze Star. They make these claims on the basis of firsthand knowledge. But combat is notoriously confusing, and soldiers in the heat of battle make poor witnesses. Kerry deserves the benefit of the doubt. If the Navy says he won his medals fair and square, that's good enough for me.

What Kerry did (or didn't do) in Cambodia is a different matter.

On March 27, 1986, Kerry told his fellow senators: "I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there, the troops were not in Cambodia.

"I have that memory, which is seared - seared - in me."

Here's the problem: Kerry's commanding officers and some of his crew members reportedly deny that he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968. They say he was stationed near the town of Sa Dec, 55 miles from the Cambodian border.

Kerry's people are trying hard to discredit his discreditors. They call "Unfit for Command" co-author O'Neill a Republican hack with a decades-long grudge against Kerry. They say Texas moneymen close to Karl Rove are behind the TV spots and are warning TV stations, in writing, not to air them. They maintain that the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are motivated by jealousy of Kerry or anger at his post-Vietnam anti-war activities. They want to dismiss all questions about Kerry's war record as sleazy slander.

Sorry, but that's not going to wash. The issue is not whether the charges against Kerry are politically motivated (they obviously are) or who is paying for them. There's just one relevant question: Are the allegations true? Specifically, is it true he lied about being in Cambodia.

Unlike the debate over Kerry's medals, this is a matter that can be checked and verified. If it turns out Kerry was there, the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are liars and their charges are, in the words of Kerry's friend John McCain, "dishonest and dishonorable." But if he wasn't there, the Kerry campaign is saddled with a problem it can't solve by calling Republicans names, threatening TV stations or even bringing up President Bush's less than stellar war record.

Kerry has staked his candidacy on Vietnam. His running mate has publicly invited the country to judge Kerry by listening to his comrades in arms. A lot of them, to Edwards' obvious chagrin, are saying that John Kerry is unfit for command.

If it turns out he made up the story of Christmas in Cambodia, they could very well be right.

Originally published on August 11, 2004
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 02:09 pm
There is also a problem with the account Rassman furnished the WSJ and numerous other sources that have been published, such as:

In BB's post

Quote:
On March 13, 1969, John Kerry's courage and leadership saved my life.

While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.


But then there is this (also reported by numerous other sources):

Quote:
Spoke: Thursday, July 29
Jim Rassman

Former Army Green Beret Jim Rassman joined a dozen other of John Kerry's Vietnam crewmates on the convention stage in the lead-up to the candidate's address.

Rassman told the convention he wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for Kerry. In a March 1969 ambush, Kerry led his swift boat through heavy fire on the waters of the Mekong Delta and pulled Rassman to safety after Rassman's own swift boat was blown to pieces.

Kerry, who was wounded that day, earned a Bronze Star for valor.

Rassman, a registered Republican, called up John Kerry's campaign before the Iowa caucuses to volunteer to help. He told delegates he'd seen Kerry's "bravery and leadership under fire," and that he would be "a great commander-in-chief."

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2004/07/23/in_depth_politics/whoswho631596_0_15_person.shtml


Note that Rassman has been with the Kerry campaign since Iowa. In other words, he didn't just step forward to defend Kerry because he was unfairly attacked by other Vietnam vets. In his speech he said he was in a boat following Kerry's boat when he fell off the boat. But in the WSJ piece, he says he was on Kerry's boat.

So which was it?

This really is becoming curiouser and curiouser.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 04:44 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
This really is becoming curiouser and curiouser.


No, it's a non-starter, and it has been from the moment this nasty little piece of **** rose to the top of the media punchbowl, and it will remain floating feces despite the relentless attempts by desperate Republicans to make it into something it will never be:

The truth.

You're trying to polish a turd and serve it as chocolate mousse to undecided voters.

And they can see right through it. For what it is.

On a personal note, those of you continuing to churn this excrement remind me of the Tenderfeet I used to sheperd at Scout summer camp. One day during the week-long shakedown I would assemble the greenpeas and teach the basics of effective and safe fire-starting. Inevitably the poorer students would wind up trying vainly to get their little fire started by wheezing into the kindling until they finally hyperventilated.

And my advice is the same to you as it was to them:

"You can stop now; I don't want to see you pass out" (mainly because I don't want to have to call your parents to come pick you up). :wink:
0 Replies
 
Karzak
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 04:50 pm
LOL, just wait till the book comes out and the mainstream media picks up on it, then Kerry's lies about his Vietnam service will be exposed.

You libs must feel like wily coyote holding the bomb watching the fuse get shorter and shorter!
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 04:56 pm
I feel like a person watching the right wing build another edifice of lies, similar to the justifications for attacking Iraq, giving rich plums to Haliburton, etc, etc.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 05:02 pm
All Kerry has to do to lay it to rest is release the other records and debate the Swift Vet guys who have said they would like to directly confront him.

Instead of doing that he's let the DNC fire off threatening letters to TV stations etc.

They aren't going to go away any time soon but I suspect from some ramblings that the DNC is digging up all the dirt they can find to discredit them.

Free speech for me, none for thee.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Aug, 2004 05:04 pm
But most of the left who are condemning the 'neo-cons' for 'churning the sh*t' still thinks Michael Moores so-called documentary is okay, yes?
0 Replies
 
 

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