McCain condemns ad, Kerry's commander backs off

This is what Elliot is on record as saying:

Quote:

When accusations surfaced during Mr. Kerry's 1996 senatorial re-election campaign that he had shot the Vietnamese in the back as he was wounded and fleeing, Commander Elliott spoke in Mr. Kerry's defense, telling reporters, "The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is something not to be looked down upon, but it was an act of courage."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/07/politics/campaign/07ads.html

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Oh, and the "incidentally, is on the Kerry campaign" silliness:

Quote:

The Globe found itself further embroiled in the fight when the online Drudge Report posted an article contending that the reporter who wrote the Elliott piece, Michael Kranish, had been "Commissioned to Write Official Campaign Book Foreward - While Covering Kerry."

PublicAffairs, publisher of the Kerry campaign book, said that Mr. Kranish had been retained to write the foreward for a different book, and that when it struck a deal to publish the campaign's platform, it dropped its plans to publish that book.

That becomes "on the Kerry campaign"... Rolling Eyes

Just one more thing:

Quote:

Martin Baron, editor of The Boston Globe, backed up that account in a statement and also stood by the quotations from Commander Elliott in his paper. "The quotes attributed to Mr. Elliott were on the record and absolutely accurate," he said.

My own impression is that Elliott knows Kerry didn't do anything wrong, and will say so in unguarded moments, but Elliott also really really doesn't like Kerry and doesn't want him to become president. So he's doing what he can to help that effort.

(Both quotes from the same article I link to above.)

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Note that the NY Times article did not put that quote into context. There is no way to tell if Elliott was in fact defending Senator Kerry or simply pointing out an error in the opposition's assertion. Further, Elliott has stated that it has been in the last year, when Kerry announced his candidacy for President and started bragging about being a Vietnam war hero that he, and others, started digging back throught he record to check dates, facts, and circumstances.

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Wow! Foxfyre, you're pretty amazing at this evasion thing.

What context is lacking? This is a central charge, is it not? That Kerry shot someone who was wounded and running away? When that came up in 1996, Elliott addressed the charges ("spoke in Mr. Kerry's defense") by saying, "The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is something not to be looked down upon, but it was an act of courage." "He", here, is Kerry. Not some random person chasing down some random enemy.

What context is lacking?

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One can defend an erroneous assumption; i.e. shooting somebody in the back under combat is not necessarily something to condemn but in fact can be a heroic act, while not commending everything that the person otherwise did. Elliott to this day is not critical of Kerry shooting somebody in the back. It is other things he criticises Kerry on. There is no way to determine in the NY Times quote whether Elliott was defning Kerry in total or only on that one issue.

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http://www.able2know.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10156/eggo.jpg

Quote:

Anti-Kerry ad dispute grows

It appears also the author of the Original Boston Globe article, Michael Kranish, had another Axe to grind
(seems he wrote the forward. Incidentally, the book currently stands at 1,936 in Amazon's sales rank)

http://www.employees.org/~alokem/graphics/legs.jpg

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Foxfyre, let's back up a wee bit:

First, no comment on the "on the Kerry campaign thing", eh? Oh well, par for the course.

Second, we were talking about waffling. Elliott has actively stood up for Kerry before -- that seems to indicate a little opinion-changing, no?

Third, yes, the shot-in-the-back thing is very much a centerpiece of what this ad is about.

Foxfyre wrote:

Elliott to this day is not critical of Kerry shooting somebody in the back.

Uh, no.

Quote:

The Boston Globe quoted the man, Lt. Cmdr. George Elliott, retired, who as Mr. Kerry's commander in Vietnam had recommended him for a Silver Star, as recanting a recent sworn statement that he did not believe Mr. Kerry deserved the decoration because of accusations that he had earned it by shooting a fleeing, wounded Vietcong in the back.

Shall I post that again?

Quote:

a recent sworn statement that he did not believe Mr. Kerry deserved the decoration because of accusations that he had earned it by shooting a fleeing, wounded Vietcong in the back.

So -- Elliott makes a sworn statement that he did not believe Mr. Kerry deserved the decoration because of accusations that he had earned it by shooting a fleeing, wounded Vietcong in the back.

Elliott recants the statement.

Elliott says no, actually, he really means it.

Meanwhile, 8 years ago, he went on record to defend Kerry from that very accusation, saying, "The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is something not to be looked down upon, but it was an act of courage."

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Elliot has not waffled. Elliot's statement re the apparent discrepancy is that had he been more fully aware of the circumstances at the time, had he known then what he knows now, he would not have approved the citation recommendation. Elliot also says, in a sworn statement which was issued yesterday, that he was misquoted and quoted out of context by Kranish.

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Okay point well taken Sozobe. Elliott very well may be critical of Kerry in this particular incident as recounted in Timber's post. My original premise remains however. Without putting Elliott's quote (from the New York Times) into context, there is no way to determine what specifically Elliott was defending at that time if he in fact did say what the New York Times says he said. Was he referring to Kerry's action specifically? Or was he referring to a generic situation?

Can you say for certain which it is?

I think something like that is fair game to add to the body of evidence to determine a person's veracity. But I don't think a single quote out of context that way is enough to defend or damn.

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If I searched until I found a GI in Iraq who did exactly as Kerry did in Vietnam and began questioning his accomplishments, the same people condemning Kerry would be calling me traitor - "Getting our boys killed", etc. Liberal hater of America. Phooey. It's all ideology with you people.

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If the guy you found in Iraq were a presidential candidate it would matter too, that's the difference.

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In what respect?

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Its Kerry's ideology under fire here, edgar, and his probity, and its Kerry who chose to make his brief stint in combat the central theme of his campaign.

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Respect, see you answered it yourself, it's an easy one.

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Quote:

CLEMENTS, O'NEILL, PIERCE, WILSON & FULKERSON
A Registered Limited Liability Partnership
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
WELLS FARGO PLAZA
1000 LOUISIANA STREET, SUITE 1800
HOUSTON, TEXAS 77002-5009
______________________

(713) 654-7600

Facsimile (713) 654-7690

www.copwf.com

JOHN E. O'NEILL
Partner
(713) 654-7604
[email protected]

August 6, 2004

Re: Swift Boat Veterans For Truth

Dear Station Manager:

The Kerry Campaign has continued its effort to prevent our voice from being heard. You were presented with an article from Kerry's hometown newspaper, The Boston Globe, written by Michael Kranish, Kerry's biographer, claiming that Captain Elliott had withdrawn his affidavit and disavowed the ad. This is totally false.

Enclosed is Captain Elliott's affidavit executed this morning after the false Globe story.

Captain Elliott affirms his original affidavit; affirms his ad statement; and adds additional detail. In the ad, Captain Elliott says that Kerry was not honest about his service in Vietnam. This is indisputably true.

The use of a surprise false article to strike pending ads represents a new low in ambush journalism.

Very truly yours,

John E. O'Neill

JEO/cas

Enclosure

Source

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It's you guys' job to discredit every move he makes. So far all you've done is smear a genuine hero.

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Other 'genuine' heros are speaking out, we're just listening to them also.

I don't put Kerry above any one of those guys especially since they stayed on the job longer and are just as decorated.

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I put him above obvious liars.

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edgarblythe wrote:

I put him above obvious liars.

I'll give him that; he's exemplary among the genre Twisted Evil

sorry, edgar ... but you offered an excellent straightline there Laughing

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You've heard of bad puns? That was a bad comeback.

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McCain condemns ad, Kerry's commander backs off

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