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McCain condemns ad, Kerry's commander backs off

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2004 05:35 pm
and the thought plickens but nobody cares.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2004 05:42 pm
Revel's argument:
Quote:
I was on that boat with him that Christmas, and we were not anywhere near Cambodia," says Steven Gardner, who served as Kerry's gunner's mate on PCF-44 (patrol craft fast) and who is now a member of SBVT. PCF-44 was based in Cam Ranh Bay, a good distance from the Cambodian border. "He didn't have the balls to do that and break international law, let alone do what we were supposed to half the time.


You don't know, the writer didn't know, and I sure don't know whether Gardner or the other guy knew what he was talking about re their position. The commanders, the guys responsible for the boats, say there is no way Kerry's boat was in Cambodia either in December or January.

The point is they are all saying Christmas in the accounts you are posting. We have shown that none of the facts Kerry has related stack up against the known facts. And now, Kerry is trying to get the account changed to say January, not December, despite the fact that this particular Christmas was 'seared into his memory' and the guys speaking up for him are all saying 'Christmas'. If all these guys are saying Christmas, how come Kerry is now trying to get the story changed to January instead of Christmas?

You see, it just isn't adding up.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2004 06:05 pm
Gosh foxfrye, maybe I am just really slow, but that guy said, "I WAS ON THAT BOAT WITH HIM THAT CHRISTMAS."

You said that Kerry was lying because he confused Janurary with Christmas. I was merely telling you that another guy confused Janurary with Christmas as well.

They were close to the border of Cambodia as even a website that is obviously not a kerry supporter website shows:

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2004/08/brinkley_on_ker.html

Quote:
P. 218: Describing the Christmas incident, Brinkley never describes Kerry as crossing the border. Wasser is quoted: "We were getting close to Cambodia," Wasser explained later. "We were out there all alone in the darkness


All this is just stupid.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2004 06:21 pm
Who in the Hell cares if he remembers being in Cambodia. That was 1969. I have no idea where I was at all in the months of November and December 1969. Anyone who can say they do and especially if they were involved in combat are liars themselves. I'm sure nobody here who would even attempt it has ever misspoke about where and when they were over thirty years ago. I don't believe any of those who are involved in this book, financed by Texas Republicans, can give any accurate accounts of their whereabouts in that war and pin-point it even down to a particular week, let alone a month.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2004 06:21 pm
Bullshit!
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2004 06:24 pm
sometime during the first few weeks of nov in 1963 I was on leave in Sydney Australia and I got laid, I remember that.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2004 11:08 pm
Okay I'm saying one more time. Nobody but Kerry said they were in Cambodia on Christmas 1998. He said he remembered spending Christmas there....it was 'seared into his memory'. He is further on record as saying Nixon ordered them there illegally. His gunner said no way they were in Cambodia on Christmas. Another guy said they 'could have been in Cambodia on Christmas' as 'they didn't know exactly where they were.'
Finally, Nixon wasn't president on Christmas, 1998 or until late January 1999.

But now Kerry is saying that it wasn't Christmas, after all but rather it was January. Nobody else is saying that it wasn't Christmas but instead was January. He in effect is even calling his supporters liars.

You don't see a problem with this?

The man lied. He got caught, and the more he tries to wriggle out of it, the worse it gets.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 05:49 am
Back then Cambodia and Vietnam - were literally interchangeable....you know, like ribbons and medals.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 06:01 am
I think you meant 1968
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 06:18 am
I will be the first to admit that Kerry gets caught in all the silly attempts by the repubs to paint him in a corner. He needs to learn to rise above it and let it slide into oblivion rather than feeding it by trying to correct his misstatements or defending his medals which don't need defending.

And no foxfrye, nice try, but Kerry is not calling those who said Christmas as well he liars. He is merely correcting his misspoken word.

january is around Christmas time; so it is not out of the ordinary to just call it Christmas.

Can you really not see how trivial and stupid this all is? All the mistakes that those swift boat guys are pointing out are little nick pick things that don't mean beans in the context of his account of the cambodia (or near cambodia, excuse me Rolling Eyes ) at Christmas (January, excuse me) story.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 07:06 am
Yes 1968 Joe....typo land. And okay Revel, I accept that you will believe Kerry doesn't know the difference between Christmas and January Smile

I won't accept that the Swift Boat guys are nitpicking however. They were there. All served their full tour of duty. All earned their medals and ribbons along with a right to tell their side of the story. They are such a diverse bunch, I cannot believe they all share identical ideologies or have the same ax to grind. Therefore, at this time given what we know, Kerry's story looks a whole lot less credible than theirs.

And it would be trivial and stupid to make a big deal out of it now if Kerry himself had not chosen to do that. He's the one who wrote his resume to be: I was born. I was a war hero. I am the best man to be president. Now at such time that he wants to move the focus to what he has been doing in the 35 years since Vietnam, that would be okay too. I suspect he knows that's going to look even worse, however.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 08:05 am
What a nasty lot of innuendo fueled by hatred you have, madam. When are the Republicans going to start facing issues and quit throwing mud, I wonder? I doubt they will because THAT is all they know how to do... other than invade small countries.

We were better off on September 12, 2001 then we are now and there are A LOT of people who feel the same way as I. Then only 3000 people died and we had the whole world in sympathy with us. We made mistakes... that is why those terrorists got through... but rather than face mistakes (MR.Bush doesn't believe he's ever made any) we've blundered into a position of becoming the most hated of any country. What a travesty.


from the LA Times - Kerry's Crime-Fighting Early Days by James Rainey, Times Staff Writer
July 18, 2004

Quote:
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 08:38 am
Could you elaborate on how my opinion is innuendo fueled by hatred Piffka? I thought I was expressing an opinion based on the evidence as I see it. I would not see it as necessary to insult you because you hold a different opinion.

At any rate:

Piffka writes
Quote:
Kerry has said he wants to fine-tune the Patriot Act, not overturn it


Well Senator Kerry said:

Quote:
On Senate Floor re the PATRIOT Act. "I am pleased at the compromise we have reached on the antiterrorism legislation, as a whole, which includes the sunset provision on the wiretapping and electronic surveillance component. It has been a source of considerable concern for people, and I think the sunset provision provides Congress a chance to come back and measure the record appropriately, and that is appropriate." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/25/01, p. S11027)

"Passage of this legislation is going to make it a lot more difficult for new terrorist organizations to develop." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/25/01, p. S11027)



But candidate Kerry has said:

Quote:
"So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft. That starts with replacing the PATRIOT Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time." (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Iowa State University, 12/1/03)

"I will change the PATRIOT Act. And we have the good common sense, may I add, to put in the PATRIOT Act a sunset clause so it dies automatically at the end of this year and we'll change it." (Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel Democratic Presidential Debate, Milwaukee, WI, 2/15/04)

"If you are sensitive to and care about civil liberties, you can make provisions to guarantee that there is not this blind spot in the American justice system that there is today under the PATRIOT Act." (Sen. John Kerry As Quoted On NPR's "Morning Edition," 8/18/03)


Sheesh. No wonder Kerry is trying to run on a war record more than 35 years ago. His record since then is so hard to defend.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 11:35 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Yes 1968 Joe....typo land. And okay Revel, I accept that you will believe Kerry doesn't know the difference between Christmas and January Smile

I won't accept that the Swift Boat guys are nitpicking however. They were there. All served their full tour of duty. All earned their medals and ribbons along with a right to tell their side of the story. They are such a diverse bunch, I cannot believe they all share identical ideologies or have the same ax to grind. Therefore, at this time given what we know, Kerry's story looks a whole lot less credible than theirs.

And it would be trivial and stupid to make a big deal out of it now if Kerry himself had not chosen to do that. He's the one who wrote his resume to be: I was born. I was a war hero. I am the best man to be president. Now at such time that he wants to move the focus to what he has been doing in the 35 years since Vietnam, that would be okay too. I suspect he knows that's going to look even worse, however.


I did not say that I believe that Kerry does not know the difference between Christmas & January.

second, not all of them are saying the same, there are at least two who are on kerry's side. The things that they picked out to bring down kerry was nick picking things like the difference between christmas and january and saying at cambodia instead of near. The other things they said were just things like he didn't deserve his medals and even going so far as to imply that kerry signed his own recommendations for his medals. Those are nick picking petty things that can't be proven and it would take more than people's word on the matter.

The fact is that, like I said before, there were people against the war some of them were veterans of the war and some were just ordinary citizens. Some people were for the war and highly offended by those that protested the war and had things to say about it. The guy who started all this was of the latter group. Republicans are taking advantage of his stance and using it for all its worth. (or not worth)

the end.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 11:59 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Yes 1968 Joe....typo land. And okay Revel, I accept that you will believe Kerry doesn't know the difference between Christmas and January Smile

I won't accept that the Swift Boat guys are nitpicking however. They were there. All served their full tour of duty. All earned their medals and ribbons along with a right to tell their side of the story. They are such a diverse bunch, I cannot believe they all share identical ideologies or have the same ax to grind. Therefore, at this time given what we know, Kerry's story looks a whole lot less credible than theirs.

And it would be trivial and stupid to make a big deal out of it now if Kerry himself had not chosen to do that. He's the one who wrote his resume to be: I was born. I was a war hero. I am the best man to be president. Now at such time that he wants to move the focus to what he has been doing in the 35 years since Vietnam, that would be okay too. I suspect he knows that's going to look even worse, however.


How do you "know" anything about the Swift Boat group except that they don't like your guy? How do you know that these fellas earned their medals and ribbons? What hypocrisy... and it is dawning on me, that's why the democrats don't fight you so well. We can't do hypocrisy with nearly the flair.

Quit throwing stones and start saying where Mr. Bush is doing well. Tell us how his tax cuts have helped the economy, if you can. Tell us how his clever handling of the war has been well-thought out, if you can. Tell us how his appointments have made any sense except as political plums.

Your highly funded group of right-wing nuts has come up with a book, websites and innuendos to debase clearly authorized and fully recorded military honors. Why? They are hoping for a few fools to believe them. They know they'll get huge amounts of coverage in the right-wing fueled websites, radio and TV. I say, find something else if you want to support your party honorably. What you are doing dishonors every person who has ever served. It calls EVERY SINGLE RIBBON AND MEDAL INTO QUESTION.

I posted a whole series of paragraphs about Kerry's prosecutor days. He has only begun to show what he's made of.

And I think it is BS to post that Kerry changes his mind while at the same time everyone knows he is the most liberal voter in the whole damned Congress. Get it straight. It can't be one or the other. The Senate is full of compromise. Anybody who can't change their position won't get anywhere.

Kerry has been hated by the Republicans since Nixon. Why should it be any different now? He is a strong, passionate, and, I'd say, patient man who has served this country since college in one field of public service or another with success and honors. Who else can say the same? The only reason to snipe at Kerry is because you don't have anything else to say. Face it.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 12:46 pm
Piffka
Piffka

APPLAUSE!

BBB Very Happy
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 12:56 pm
BOO HISS!!


"Your highly funded group of right-wing nuts"


This type of personal invective against Foxfyre doesn't become you Piffka
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 01:07 pm
Panzade
Panzade, I suspect Piffka learned the phrase from several A2K posters who have slammed those with an opposing viewpoint as left wing nuts. However, since you singled out one comment, would you prefer that Piffka had written instead "right wing fanatics"?

BTW, Panzade, I hope you and your family survived the terrible storms without injury or property damage. My son and daughter-in-law are about to move to Florida. I think they must be storm wing fanatics. :wink: My son said this was the storm of the century so they would be safe for another hundred years.

BBB
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 01:15 pm
LOL, ty BBB I've learned that traffic is more dangerous than hurricanes
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2004 01:15 pm
What doesn't become the quality of this political season is the "dishonest and dishonorable" smear attempts by and for the Bush campaign. Piffka is right to demand a more positive approach from them and from those who support them. This ad campaign, which has never gotten the slightest disavowal from Bush headquarters, represents the worst kind of unethical conduct imaginable. They dishonor themselves and all who served in the VietNam War.

Joe
0 Replies
 
 

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