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What gun control means

 
 
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 06:12 am
https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12295463_10204347536162940_2676088145168310087_n.jpg?oh=e7aa988e7fa93e045b03262177ce15e2&oe=571FE784
 
Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 07:33 am
@gungasnake,
Really? And what is the correct term for "gun control" in those countries where it is thought to exist, like e.g. the gun-control laws in Switzerland ("Ordonnance sur les armes, les accessoires d'armes et les munitions"), Germany (Waffengesetz and Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz) or any other country? I mean, people here have 'guns' legally, and they are neither civil servants nor employed in any other way by those countries.

By they way: the pic you show above is nicely "photoshopped" (actually changed in the dark room), below the original

http://i65.tinypic.com/25z4d3r.jpg
(That really something out of a history book: how propaganda was done during WWII)
McGentrix
 
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Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 08:09 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Huh, you wouldn't think that finding a German doing something horrendous would be so hard to find that they would need to photoshop something together.
gungasnake
 
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Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 04:08 pm
There were 24 hours in a day in 1944 just as there are now.

You guys are claiming there's no way the guy could have had two pictures taken on the same day??
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gungasnake
 
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Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 04:10 pm
In fact the one image is front on while the other is more or less turned sideways. Photoshop isn't that good.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 11:42 pm
@McGentrix,
Well, not at all. There were murderous in the German army.
But this one (plus a couple more) are known to have been changed - were (or still are) part of an exhibition in Berlin.

But that was just an aside. So I'm still wondering about the correct term for "gun control" which we and other countries have.
RABEL222
 
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Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 11:52 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
It should mean that a gun owner is checked out by the cops to make sure they arnt bug fuke crazy. But by those standards several gun owners on this site wouldent own a gun, which is why they are frightened shytless of gun control.
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2015 11:59 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, not at all. There were murderous in the German army.
But this one (plus a couple more) are known to have been changed - were (or still are) part of an exhibition in Berlin.

But that was just an aside. So I'm still wondering about the correct term for "gun control" which we and other countries have.


I concur that it is photo-shopped. Too bad that.

I think the main issue is that we have different cultures. We are still in a "wild west" bit of mentality in America. Europeans don't have that problem. The big ol' melting pot brings in all the crazies and that doesn't help much. Combine that with the "normal" people feeling that they should have their rights free of trample marks leaves for some interesting dynamics.
Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 04:22 am
@McGentrix,
My question really is (related to the claim in that pic): how would you call 'gun control' in today's democratic countries, where nearly everyone can get legally a gun.

I only have figures for 2013 in Germany: legal weapon owners (besides those in the forces and various state agencies).
Legally weapon ownership vary from district to district (between 186 per 1,000 inhabitants to 16 (the latter in Dresden and Berlin).
According to reports by the 550 authorities regulating the weapon ownerships 1.5 million Germans owned 5.9 million weapons in Germany in 2013.
McGentrix
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 06:00 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The picture refers to what gun control was in 1930-40's leading up to Nazi regime. What was gun control then in Germany?
Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 06:20 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
The picture refers to what gun control was in 1930-40's leading up to Nazi regime. What was gun control then in Germany?
Before the Nazis were elected, there were a rather very strict gun laws. These were loosenen by the NSDAP, mainly to allow ownership for Nazi party members and the military.
The Nazi regime was pro-gun compared with the Weimar Republic that preceded it. Now, ordinary people could get their guns back ... legally. (I know it from the maternal side of the family, all foresters, who after 1933 could use their guns officially again).
Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 06:32 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The Weimar legislature passed a law in 1919 that effectively banned all private firearm possession, leading the government to confiscate guns already in circulation.
That didn't really work.

So, in 1928, the Reichstag relaxed the regulation a bit, but put in place a strict registration regime that required citizens to acquire separate permits to own guns, sell them or carry them.
That, interestingly, worked better, mainly, because the police now really looked after it.


The NSDAP law of 1938 completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as of ammunition. A lot of categories of people, including Nazi party members, were exempted from gun ownership regulations altogether, while the legal age of purchase was lowered from 20 to 18, and permit lengths were extended from one year to three years.
The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns.
McGentrix
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 12:13 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I believe that is what the original, photo-shopped, picture was trying to convey. When you ban guns from certain people, bad things may result. You'd have to agree that the guns laws have changed a lot post WW2, right?

The US was blessed with having gun rights written right into our founding documents. So we tend to see any kind of banning as a giant, mega, tremendously terrible thing. It may be a splinter to Europeans, but is a log in America.
Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 12:29 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
I believe that is what the original, photo-shopped, picture was trying to convey. When you ban guns from certain people, bad things may result. You'd have to agree that the guns laws have changed a lot post WW2, right?
Well, about 1% to 1.5% of adult Germans weren't allowed to own guns between 1933/1938 and 1945. Before, it was more.
After 1945 ... well, our laws are now, and I'm thankfull about that, very similar to what has been the legal situation about owning weapons in the 1920's.

Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 12:44 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
The US was blessed with having gun rights written right into our founding documents. So we tend to see any kind of banning as a giant, mega, tremendously terrible thing. It may be a splinter to Europeans, but is a log in America.
Gun control actually isn't the same as banning guns.
And the USA has had gun control laws in the 18th/19th century as well (see: Saul Cornell & Nathan DeDino, A Well Regulated Right: The Early American Origins of Gun Control, 73 Fordham L. Rev. 487 (2004))
Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 12:57 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
After 1945 ... well, our laws are now, and I'm thankfull about that, very similar to what has been the legal situation about owning weapons in the 1920's.
Comparing the 1928 law and those actually valid now about weapon and amunition ownership: with minor modifications, the Federal German Weapons Act follows up on the law of 1928, just amended and modernized in some aspects, but basically following its structures and aims.
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Tue 8 Dec, 2015 06:31 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
The US was blessed with having gun rights written right into our founding documents. So we tend to see any kind of banning as a giant, mega, tremendously terrible thing. It may be a splinter to Europeans, but is a log in America.
Gun control actually isn't the same as banning guns.
And the USA has had gun control laws in the 18th/19th century as well (see: Saul Cornell & Nathan DeDino, A Well Regulated Right: The Early American Origins of Gun Control, 73 Fordham L. Rev. 487 (2004))


Yes and no. For some people, gun control IS banning guns. New York State, where I have been so cursed to live, has banned quite a few guns in the name of gun control. Having a small waiting period, having background checks and such are ok methods of gun control.

But, Americans should have the right bear arms and not be infringed upon by the federal govt. That is why NYS can do what it does while every single surrounding state is allowed to sell the guns that are banned in NYS. It's all a bunch of BS.
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gungasnake
 
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Reply Thu 10 Dec, 2015 11:38 pm
@Hinkey,

Gun control laws in the United States in the 19'th century were basically anti-Negro laws.

https://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html
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izzythepush
 
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Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2015 06:03 am
If Germany had had gun control the Nazi party would not have been able to arm its stormtroopers and challenge the army. Gun control would have kept the Nazis out which is why today's neo Nazis, and there's quite a few on this thread, oppose gun control.
McGentrix
 
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Reply Wed 16 Dec, 2015 07:47 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

today's neo Nazis, and there's quite a few on this thread, oppose gun control.


Are you talking about Walter? That's mean.
 

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