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Paris attacks caused archbishop to 'doubt' presence of God

 
 
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 01:09 pm
Paris attacks caused archbishop to 'doubt' presence of God

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34893039

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Type: Question • Score: 8 • Views: 1,695 • Replies: 32

 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 01:17 pm
@neologist,
If you had read the report, you could know it. Or even better: listen to and watch BBC Songs Of Praise (online here)
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 01:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
BBC header was the reason for posting.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 02:22 pm
@neologist,
As an aside: actually, due to (but not alone) Jesus' "My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?" even in medieval times those who had doubts weren't executed as witches. (There are a lot of examples from inquisition in the 13th century until the witch trials in 17th.)
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 04:23 pm
I believe i am correct in saying that most witch trials were conducted by Protestants.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 06:09 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm not sure we are seeing the same thing
i just thought it noteworthy that a high renking christian minister would wonder why God permited evil
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 06:13 pm
@neologist,
The archbishop is hardly a fortress of faith.

Children ask why God allows "evil" to exist.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2015 11:46 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
i just thought it noteworthy that a high renking christian minister would wonder why God permited evil
An acquaintance (our mothers were friends) is a cardinal, head of the German bishops, does and did so in many of his sermons.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 12:58 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
It is one thing to discuss why God "permits evil" in a sermon and another to allow it to question your faith. If this guy hadn't worked out in his heart and mind the question, long ago, his faith and his intellect are in question. There have been many, many examples of evil (arguably worse than the Paris attack) since he reached adulthood and now. He's a fraud.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 02:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
If this guy hadn't worked out in his heart and mind the question, long ago, his faith and his intellect are in question.
Well, he's the senior bishop and principal leader of the Church of England - some might have a different opinion to yours.

When questioned about whether the attacks had caused him to doubt where God is, he said: "Oh gosh, yes."
And: "Yes. Saturday morning - I was out and as I was walking I was praying and saying: 'God why - why is this happening? Where are you in all this?' and then engaging and talking to God. Yes, I doubt."

I admire the human in the Archbishop.

His intellect? Trinity College BA in history and BA in law, promoted to MA (Cantab); quite a career in the oil industry afterwards.
And of the course the usual theological degrees up to a dissertation.

His faith? Well, I'm not an Anglican. You may know better.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 02:06 pm
@neologist,
I think every person of faith should question their beliefs regularly. Priests, rabbis, imams etc are not exempt from that.

My anecdotal evidence is that religious leaders do question their gods and their beliefs.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 02:28 pm
@ehBeth,
I've just recently read some texts (and a book) by the earlier mentioned aquaintance (he's additionally president of the Bishops' Conferences of the European Community, and in several Vatican commissions).
He has taught as a professor (chair) of Christian economic ethics - just saying so before Finn questions his intellect.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 02:42 pm
@ehBeth,
Indeed.

2 Corinthians 13:5 admonishes Christians to continue testing their faith.
But in the same letter, Paul reminds us that the one controlling the events of our system of things is not the Creator. (Vs. 4:4).

A point sorely misunderstood.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 02:43 pm
@ehBeth,
Some. We can't really know, can we, except for those that express these kind of questions.

I was raised rather closely (come for dinner!) to missionaries of the catholic persuasion. I was, say, eight to thirteen, primarily a listener and later something of a mess re faith or not. One thing I do remember was reading Thomas Merton's Seven Storey Mountain in my teens. Interesting guy. He was a positive point to me then, in contrast to these others. I liked the others well enough, but I sensed palaver even at that age, since we also had other people to our house to dinners who told a lot of real life stuff, some of it gritty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Merton

Not that Merton was a doubter, I don't remember that being so, but that he was quite a wide thinker.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 06:13 pm
@ossobuco,
I would avoid anyone who said they have never doubted the existence of god. They are obviously liars.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2015 06:26 pm
@RABEL222,
I have known many religious people in my time, as naturally have others.
Me, I believed until I started what I think of as my maybe year or two, pushing into my twenties, and then totally dropped out. I'd be surprised to learn my mother ever doubted, inconceivable. I'd be surprised to learn my father never did, and that too is close to inconceivable, given his education and experiences.

To say you'd avoid people who say they never doubted makes me think you haven't met a fair portion of religious people.

No way I would have avoided my own mother, and others.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2015 01:00 am
@ossobuco,
I have many religious friends who admit that they have had doubts. My wife has had doubts. I think that anyone who says they have never doubted are lying. I avoid them because they cant be trusted. If they lie about something so basic how can you trust anything they say. As to mom and dad and brothers and sisters and many friends I look beyond that. I also avoid those who tell me we have been married 20 years and never had an argument.
neologist
 
  3  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2015 01:18 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
. . . I also avoid those who tell me we have been married 20 years and never had an argument. . .
Carole and I have been married 40 years and have never had an argument

after the first one where she told me the rules. Mr. Green
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2015 01:51 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Carole and I have been married 40 years and have never had an argument


Old joke, and not even that funny, but...

Farmer is out plowin with his mule as his wife is bringing him water.

Mule suddenly stops. Farmer hits his ass with a stick, and says "That's one."
Mule stops again, same thing, except "that's two."
Mule stops again, Farmer hauls out his shotgun and blows the mule's ass away.

Wife says: What in the HELL did you do that for?

Farmer hits her ass with a stick, and says: "That's one."

They didn't argue no more.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2015 08:23 am
@neologist,
Our archbishops tend to be a decent bunch, actually focusing on moral issues, in stark contrast to the televangelist garbage that's only interesting in feathering its own nest.
0 Replies
 
 

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