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Playing Politics with Terror Alerts

 
 
PDiddie
 
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2004 06:13 pm
Ridge, today:

Quote:
But we must understand that the kind of information available to us today is the result of the president's leadership in the war against terror, the reports that have led to this alert are the result of offensive intelligence and military operations overseas, as well as strong partnerships with our allies around the world, such as Pakistan.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 7,248 • Replies: 156
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2004 06:29 pm
ridge needs to attend more of ashchroft's prayer meetings, The End Is Near!!!!!
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2004 07:15 pm
I do feel safer because there have been arrests of cells operating in the US. We have been able to do these things because of an offensive stance on intelligence. I'm sure there has also been help due to the Patriot Act
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2004 07:22 pm
The apprehension level seems to be about the same as with the Clinton administration. They did as well, in short, without issuing alerts every time they needed a boost in the polls.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Aug, 2004 07:48 pm
In Oz we received fridge magnets from the govermnent telling us to "be alert but not alarmed"!
Very handy, they were! And, of course, we then felt confident that the government had terrorism under control! Laughing
0 Replies
 
Thok
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 12:09 am
Clearly a play with politics.

dyslexia wrote:
The End Is Near!!!!!


hopefully for Bush/Cheney. But I guess they have a stronger lobby than Kerry...
0 Replies
 
Thok
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 12:16 am
Treasuries, Gold, Oil Rise on U.S. Terror Alert; Dollar Falls

Quote:
Treasuries, gold and crude oil rose, while stocks and the dollar fell, after the U.S. government said al- Qaeda may be planning attacks on financial institutions including the New York Stock Exchange.

The yield on the 4 3/4 percent U.S. Treasury note maturing May 2014 fell 5 basis points to 4.43 percent. Gold for December delivery rose as much as 0.9 percent. U.S. Homeland Security Department Secretary Tom Ridge said intelligence sources point to plans to bomb targets in New York, Washington and New Jersey state.

The dollar and stocks fell on concern terrorist threats will sap consumer confidence and deter international investors from buying U.S. assets. Crude oil rose to a record amid concern terrorists may also target oil facilities to disrupt the November U.S. presidential elections and tensions may escalate in the Middle East, which produces about a third of the world's oil.

``This is different from previous terror alerts as Homeland Security is citing specific threats,'' said Singapore-based Kenny Borowicz, a broker of Treasury futures and other financial instruments at UOB Bullion & Futures Ltd., a unit of Singapore's second-largest lender. ``Anytime you throw terror into the picture, it changes everything,'' he said.

The New York Stock Exchange and Citigroup Inc. in Manhattan, and the World Bank and International Monetary Fund in Washington are among al-Qaeda targets, prompting intensified security at the sites, Ridge said at a news conference in Washington.

Crude Oil

Crude oil for September delivery on the New York Mercantile Exchange rose to $43.92 a barrel, the highest intraday price since trading began in New York in 1983. Oil has risen $12 a barrel, or 38 percent, in the past year on concern about possible attacks on oil pipelines in the Middle East and potential disruption to exports from Russia, Nigeria and Venezuela.

Against the euro, the dollar fell as low as $1.2075, and was trading at $1.2058 at 1:08 p.m. in Tokyo from $1.2018 late Friday in New York, according to electronic foreign-exchange dealing system EBS. The dollar also dropped to 1.2737 Swiss francs, from 1.2815 francs. It may fall to $1.2120 per euro and 1.26 Swiss francs today, said Jake Moore, a currency strategist in Tokyo at Barclays Capital Inc.

``Terrorism means increased uncertainty and is negative for the dollar,'' Moore said. ``Dollar-Swiss is the classic risk aversion trade and the dollar could well extend its decline against the euro.''

Intelligence sources point to al-Qaeda plans to use car or truck bombs against financial institutions that are ``iconic'' of the U.S. role in the global economy, Ridge said.

U.S. Economy

The threat of terror attacks may sap confidence, prolonging a slowdown in consumer spending that Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said on July 20 should be ``short-lived.''

The U.S. economy grew at a 3 percent annual rate from April through June, the slowest in more than a year, as rising energy prices led to the weakest pace of consumer spending since the 2001 recession, figures last week showed.

The dollar dropped 1.7 percent against the Swiss franc and 1 percent against the euro on March 11 after a train bombing in Spain killed at least 186 people. On Nov. 20, the Swiss franc and the euro rose against the dollar after explosions rocked the Turkish city of Istanbul in an alleged al-Qaeda attack, which damaged the British consulate.

The franc has traditionally been an asset investors turn to in times of international tension because of Switzerland's political stability. Other assets favored for being safe also benefited.

`Potent Reminder'

``It's a potent reminder for investors that the U.S. stays under terrorist threats, highlighting risks for putting money into the country's assets such as stocks,'' said Xinyi Lu, chief investment strategist in Tokyo for UFJ Bank Ltd., a unit of Japan's fourth-largest lender. ``That's bad for the dollar.''

Gold for December delivery rose as much as $3.60, or 0.9 percent, to $397.30 an ounce in after-hours trading on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract traded at $396 an ounce at 3 p.m. Sydney time.

U.S. stock-index futures also fell. September futures on the Standard & Poor's 500 Index declined 5.10 to 1096 as of 7:58 p.m. in New York. Nasdaq-100 Index futures declined 7 to 1395.50.

Japan's Nikkei 225 Stock Average lost 1 percent to 11,209.12 at the 12:56 p.m. in Tokyo, while South Korea's Kospi index shed 1.6 percent to 723.70. Exporters such as TDK Corp. and Samsung Electronics Co. led declines.


link
0 Replies
 
Wildflower63
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 12:52 am
Why should I feel safer? Because Bush is stripping us of Constitutional rights of illegal search and seisure with the excuse of terrorism? Because I cannot get on an airplane with nail clippers with a tiny file attached? Get real!!

An immigrant friend of mine, from India, came here for further education and work. In his country, it is very overpopulated and public transportation is widely used. He didn't even know how to drive a car and did not object to a bus, like we do. He was removed, from a bus, coming home from work. He was held, with questioning, with no probable cause that he has anything to do with terrorist activity at all.

I honestly have doubts that our own country didn't have something to do with this 9/11 attack. Look at the rights that have been stripped of all, since then. This is not right that my friend was removed from a public bus trying to get home from work because of his race alone and being detained, for hours at a police station and questioned.

Most of the time, we freely give up our rights, out of fear of something and let government have it. This time, it has gone way too far. I see nothing wrong with our laws and ability to get on an airplane before 9/11. I think only those with good reason should ever be investigated, not someone of a particular race removed from a bus and detained, at a police station with several hours of questioning.

I am a bit sick of the length of time it takes to get on an airplane and such restrictions today. This is out of control. I have yet to hear a valid explanation for the invasion of Iraq. I believed in the cause as worthy, ending terrorism and having no tolerance at all. What it has turned out to be is something very different that I cannot agree with and am still waiting for something beyond 'faulty intelligence' to explain why our tax dollars are being spent on this war and years of occupation.

Something about this just does not add up right to me. It smells like big government taking our rights, out of fear from people, for our own good and protection. A am a grown up. I don't need my Mommy any more. I don't need government invasion, with a bad excuse of terrorism.

If a terrorist attack is going to occur, there really is very little, if anything that can be predicted or prevented. I would stop taking showers, if I thought this logic was correct. Some people do fall, smashing their head, and die, just taking a shower. A very good friend of mine died this very way, but I will risk it. I take showers.

If I happen to fall and crack my head open, to the point of death, I am willing to go with the odds, which are much in my favor. I should stop driving my car, just in case. The odds of that are even higher, of my death. I bet more people died with slip/fall accidents taking a shower than ever died, in this country from terrorist activity.

Why should I live in fear allowing government to interfere with my rights, as an American? I refuse to accept this entire deal given to us. The odds that any one of us will die, as a result of terrorism are so slim, it isn't worth worrying about.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 05:35 am
This current terror alert is so specific, I'm not ready to say that it is politically motivated. If a plot against financial institutions was in the works, or about to be launched, then increasing the degree of alert, and heightening security, makes a lot of sense.

Unlike some of the previous alerts, the specificity of this one almost mandated that it be made public. The heightened security is going to affect traffic and travel into certain areas. It will be highly visible, and you have to let the public know what is going on.
Also, once you expose a plot, you hopefully decrease the likelihood that an attack will occur.

Of course, there is always the risk that this alleged plot is really a ruse, and that, while police are concentrated in one area, searching for truck bombs, an attack of an entirely different nature will be launched elsewhere in the city.

I am not sure why terror warnings are seen as a political plus for Bush. I think they remind us that we are no more safe than we were on 9/11, and that this administration has not done all they could do to deal with terrorism on our own soil. Our ports are not protected, our water and food supplies are not protected, our nuclear power plants are not better defended, etc. We are very vulnerable to all sorts of devastating attacks.

Terrorism may be a political football, but it is also, unfortunately, a very real threat.

Right now I am glad I don't work at the N.Y. Stock Exchange. I don't know how the people who do work at the financial institutions in question can just go about their business in a normal fashion. The stress level must be extremely high today.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 05:43 am
Quote:
The apprehension level seems to be about the same as with the Clinton administration. They did as well, in short, without issuing alerts every time they needed a boost in the polls.


edgarblythe- Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There is no doubt that there may be some political motivation in announcing the information at this time, but I think that it is important that Americans do not get too complacent about terrorism!
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 05:50 am
Quote:
I am a bit sick of the length of time it takes to get on an airplane and such restrictions today


Wildflower63, over 3,000 people died on 9/11 because our lousy airport security allowed four planes to be simultaneously hijacked. I'd rather put up with delays at the airport than see anything like that happen again.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 07:29 pm
At least "Countdown" on MSNBC took notice of the politicalization of the threat. It was their lead story tonight... questioning whether it was a political move.

IF it was about a threat that the American people needed to know about, WHY include the political ad for Bush? The text of the announcement is here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/08/20040801.html

CLEARLY this was made political and turned into free air time for Bush. No funds had to be spent on ceommercials OR a spokesperson. Ridge did it for him.

One other point, on MSNBC's report they noted that AFTER the press conference yesterday it was "leaked" to the press that the specific threat information may be as much as three years old and NOT something current as would be had from "chatter" or intercepted phone calls.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2004 07:37 pm
People keep talking about how our freedoms are being taken away but I haven't seen any proof of this and in the several boards I have been on no one has been able to provide any proof of this. I think it is a scare tactic used by those that don't like the current administration.

Please, please oh dear God please provide some proof that our freedoms have been taken away. I would like some examples of how our fellow Americans have been harmed and other wise imprisoned due to the Patriot Act!
0 Replies
 
Thok
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 12:30 am
Thok wrote:
Clearly a play with politics.


again:
Material Behind New U.S. Alert Is Years Old: Reports
Quote:
Much of the information obtained by al Qaeda that led the United States to raise terror alerts in Washington and New York was at least three years old, and U.S. officials are unsure if the group's surveillance continues, according to published reports on Tuesday.

The Washington Post and The New York Times reported in Tuesday editions that officials were still analyzing documents seized late last month after a raid in Pakistan that showed al Qaeda surveillance of specific U.S. targets.

Documents, computers, surveillance reports and sketches were recovered related to the capture of suspected al Qaeda computer expert Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan, also known as Abu Talha, in July, officials said.

Much of the information that resulted from the arrest was compiled before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, The New York Times reported, citing intelligence and law enforcement officials.

Federal authorities said they are unsure whether al Qaeda's surveillance continues, the newspapers reported.

"You could say that the bulk of this information is old, but we know that al Qaeda collects, collects, collects until they're comfortable," a senior government official was quoted in the Times as saying. "Only then do they carry out an operation. And there are signs that some of this may have been updated or may be more recent."

The Post cited officials as saying that much of the information al Qaeda gathered on buildings in Washington, New York and Newark, New Jersey, was obtained through the Internet or other "open sources" available to the general public, including floor plans.

"What we've uncovered is a collection operation as opposed to the launching of an attack," said a senior American official quoted by the Post.

U.S. officials have previously warned of possible attacks before the presidential election in November. The latest warnings on Sunday were of al Qaeda threats to attack symbols of U.S. financial might such as the New York Stock Exchange, World Bank, and International Monetary Fund, among other targets in the New York area and Washington.


Link
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Thok
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 12:34 am
A nation in danger. Or a president in peril?

Quote:
America was bracing itself last night after intelligence agencies warned al-Qa'ida could be planning to attack financial institutions on the East Coast and that its operatives had already carried out surveillance missions on the targets.

Police sealed off streets in New York, ordered international finance employees in Washington to go through extra security checks and added barricades and a heavy armed presence in Newark, New Jersey, after intelligence gathered in Pakistan identified that institutions in these cities were being targeted.

"We are a nation in danger," said President George Bush, after the nation's state of alert was raised to "orange" (high) on Sunday evening. "We are doing everything in our power to confront the danger. [This alert is ] a solemn reminder of the threat we continue to face"

Officials said the warning was based on information gathered following the unannounced arrest in Pakistan on 13 July of a computer engineer, Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan, 25, who allegedly operated an al-Qa'ida communications system. Warnings based on "documentary evidence" were passed to Washington last Friday, which, combined with other intelligence, reportedly led officials to raise the alert.

The US has issued numerous terror alerts since the attacks of September 2001, and some people were sceptical yesterday as to the nature of the administration's latest warning. The former Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean highlighted the concerns of many without access to the information. "It's hard to know what to make [of it]. None of us outside the administration have access to the intelligence which led to this determination," he said.

"I am concerned that every time something happens that's not good for President Bush, he plays this trump card, which is terrorism," he told CNN. "His whole campaign is based on the notion that 'I can keep you safe, therefore, at times of difficulty for America, stick with me' and then out comes Tom Ridge. It's just impossible to know how much of this is real and how much of this is politics, and I suspect there's some of both in it."

But Mr Ridge, head of the Department of Homeland Security, and other officials insisted the information was "alarmingly" more specific than the usual intelligence chatter. Information recovered after Mr Khan's arrest was a "potential treasure trove", they said.

Officials said that institutions being targeted by al-Qa'ida included the New York Stock Exchange and the Citigroup buildings in Manhattan, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in Washington and Prudential Financial in Newark, New Jersey.

Reports yesterday said that al-Qa'ida operatives had carried out surveillance of those institutions and The New York Times reported investigators in New Jersey said suspects had been found with blueprints of the Newark building and a "test-run" to launch a car-bomb or similar attack had been carried out in recent days.
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 02:31 am
Baldimo wrote:
People keep talking about how our freedoms are being taken away but I haven't seen any proof of this and in the several boards I have been on no one has been able to provide any proof of this. I think it is a scare tactic used by those that don't like the current administration.

Please, please oh dear God please provide some proof that our freedoms have been taken away. I would like some examples of how our fellow Americans have been harmed and other wise imprisoned due to the Patriot Act!


Well, here's one group that have had previous liberties taken away... But unfortunately they aren't exactly the most innocent group...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/142571_marijuana04.html?searchpagefrom=1&searchdiff=305

However, it was once a highly held liberty, at least among some people in the Pacific Northwest. Now, it is the business of organized crime... Mom and Pop can't just bring in a little something for their own personal recreational purposes; no, Big Brother bought gamma ray scanners and search planes and all kinds of fancy stuff to search for terrorists, but a by-product of that has been pot smugglers. Yes, it was illegal, and potentially an act which could bring about imprisonment, but for most little guys, it wasn't much of a big deal... No bigger than gin running back in the '30s. It's taken away some freedom, for sure. The only thing is, perhaps that wasn't technically a freedom since it was illegal... But it had been overlooked in a manner that made users think what they were doing was practically legal, so when the patrol measures tightened up, they saw it as taking away freedoms they had previously enjoyed.
0 Replies
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 02:41 am
Re: Playing Politics with Terror Alerts
PDiddie wrote:
Ridge, today:

Quote:
But we must understand that the kind of information available to us today is the result of the president's leadership in the war against terror, the reports that have led to this alert are the result of offensive intelligence and military operations overseas, as well as strong partnerships with our allies around the world, such as Pakistan.


I don't like the feeling that it's all political. What I am wondering is if it isn't going to dull the public's internal alarms... You hear about it all the time, with no terrorists striking, then you think it's all b.s. Don't you think that is the likely outcome of all these warnings?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 10:07 am
The likely outcome is a desperate attempt at a terrorist attack, on Nov. 2nd, that is foiled by Bush and Cheney PERSONALLY in a bizarre twist of fate involving a small child and an elderly black lady.

That ought to cover all their bases.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 10:17 am
So what you are all saying is that we'd be better off with Kerry because he simply wouldn't relay the known terrorism threats to the public? That way, you'll never have a chance, or a choice, to not be vaporized. You'll never see it coming, and never know what hit you.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2004 10:20 am
No, he just wouldn't act as if the world was going to end every time it is politically convienent to do so. You could have a news conference on the first of the month that would do the same thing. The current admin has made it pretty clear that they are willing to use old/bad/unsubstantiated evidence and present it as good evidence (Iraq, anyone?), reducing the effectiveness of the system re: informing people severely - the fact that announcements are a huge media event is not lost on admin strategists, I guarantee you.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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