FAMILY?

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Bear with me you all:

My godson just graduated from high school this year and in two weeks, he and his mother, my cousin, were headed here to get him settled in for his first year of college. Freshman orientation starts on Aug. 16. This is an exciting and stressful time for them and it looks like it may be taking it's toll.

My cousin called from Houston yesterday afternoon crying her eyes out. I hadn't heard her crying like this in over twenty years. Even when she divorced her husband three years ago. My first thought was that someone, her mother or one of her sisters, had died.

She said that yesterday she and her son had an argument and he stood up in her face, yelling and screaming at her and pretty much told her off, ending it with he was never coming back to her house, never returning to Houston, that she was a lousy mother and a weak woman still under the influence of his no-good father and he was tired of her. He'd cursed his father out over the phone a few days earlier and now he was letting her have it. Mind you, this young man lives in a new twelve room home, built two years ago, and his mother is a high ranking manager at one of the largest insurance companies in the country. He is an only child and has been loved, adored and privileged all his life. Yesterday was the first time he had ever spoken to her this way, so disrespectful, and with so much venom, and it absolutely broke her heart. At this point, she says that she may not come with him to college, she may just ship his things and put him on a plane. Bawling, she begged me to go with him on campus that first day and make sure he gets settled. She doesn't want him to be there all alone, surrounded by all of the other Freshman and their parents.

I'm sure this will pass over. He's 18, thinks he's a MAN now, smelling his piss as my mother used to say, but he'll come to his senses. Again, they're both under alot of stress and if he didn't beg his mother's forgiveness last night, I am certain that he will offer a full apology today. Believe me, I will be calling this spoiled brat myself later on today to make sure. I'd like to hear what he has to say for himself anyway. There are two sides to every story and I'd like to hear his.

Her mother, who lives with them, is SO behind all of this. Cuz wasn't sure until the kid started talking about her being influenced by his father, her ex-husband. That's when she heard her mothers' voice coming out of his mouth. With him getting ready to leave home, there has been alot of interaction with the ex-husband. My cousin and her ex get along pretty well considering, but her mother despises him and can't understand why my cousin doesn't as well so as far as her mother is concerned, if she doesn't hate him then she must still love him, there's no gray area for her and apparently, she's been talking about his father and his mother to her grandson, tearing them both down.

My aunt is a piece of work. I have been grateful all my life that she was my aunt and not my mother. She is a messy woman, to say the least, but she has never, to my knowledge, turned on her children. I can't believe that she could be so ignorant not to realize that she is coming between this child and his parents? But if she knows what she's doing, why would she want to do something like this to a daughter who has done nothing but be there for her, took her into her home, built a wing onto this new home just for her, doing her best to make her mothers' last years on this earth pleasant and easy. How could a grandmother turn her grandson against his own mother?

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Wow, so, basically, grandma (your aunt) is freeloading off your cousin and is also stirring up trouble in the home. Why? For fun? Isn't there a book she could be reading or something? Ai yi yi!

And the son is falling for this, hook, line and sinker, despite the fact that presumably somewhere in there he must realize that his divorced parents getting along has been a good thing for him growing up. With the strain of leaving and preparing and all of that stuff, there's a built-in excuse to be a jerk, 'cause he figures he'll be gone soon, anyway.

Question: given that the family has $$ and college is already set, why not put the son on a short financial leash until things are squared away? The guy needs to buy books and pay his phone bill, but otherwise, why not advise your cousin to be tight on everything else? Enough choruses of "why do you really need those twenty dollars?" will either bring him into line or make the breach worse, but it's hard to see the breach as being much worse. Of course your cousin wants the best for her son and doesn't want him to do anything stupid that would endanger his education, but at the same time, she need not be walked on. Denying him enough cash for a movie ticket is not child abuse and will not, in either the long or the short run, hurt him. Also, college has a great way of shaming spoiled brats into shaping up - you just see that it's not cool, because pretty soon you realize that you don't have any friends when you behave that way.

I like the idea of just shipping his stuff up. Essentially what she'd be doing there is the barest minimum (of course his clothes have to get to the school), but without setting herself up for nastiness.

Oh, BTW, if your aunt tries to bypass things and send Junior spending money, I don't see that as such a bad thing, either. The battle lines are already drawn so it won't change things. If Junior has any sense, he'll see that thousands of dollars in tuition, room and board trump a couple of hundred for pizza any day - and that, more importantly, his mother's best efforts in raising him and keeping him in positive contact with his father trump grandma's nastiness, too.

What does her ex say about all this?

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Eoe--

Aside from the fact that she was a rabid, Irish Catholic, my ex-grandmother-in-law from New Jersey could be a clone for your aunt.

That woman strirred up trouble among her children, among her grand-children, in the marriages of her children, between her children and her grandchildren....

The stereotypical jealous, insecure woman finds a Man and then makes his life living hell if he ever sits in the room with another eligible--or ineligible woman. The super bitch--like my ex-grand-mother-in-law or your aunt--feels insecure if anyone close to her is independently happy.

Is there a fire door with a dead bolt between your cousin's main house and her mother's wing? Pity.

As for Embryonic Man with the Mouth and the Attitude..... That age isn't always very attractive. Personally, I think that being the only orphaned Freshman on campus might be a Good Experience, but I think a lot of dumb, reflexive things.

By the by, is he or is he not paying his own tuition, room and board out of his very own earnings?

I hope you can smooth things over. Installing the deadbolt is probably impractical, but the rest of the problem can be unravelled.

Good luck. Hold your dominion.

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I remember I said many cruel words when I was that age that I now deeply regret.

As for going off to college, when I went my parents gave me a one-way airplane ticket, drove me to the airport, and told me to write when I had the time.

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You're better than me, jespah. I asked her yesterday why should she pay for it at all??? She was crying so hard I could barely understand her but she said "That's what parents do."

I told myself that I would be cool when I spoke with him today but right now I'm so pissed at this ingrate, I don't know if I can be. Not today.

When I spoke with her yesterday, she had not talked to his father since he called earler in the week to tell her how the son had cursed him out.

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Noddy24 wrote:

Personally, I think that being the only orphaned Freshman on campus might be a Good Experience, but I think a lot of dumb, reflexive things.

Me too, Noddy.

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Sounds to me like it would be a good idea to try to speak with your cousin when she's less emotional. Maybe just take her out of the situation for a while, if that's possible ("Hey, Margie, let's do lunch at that little French place we've both been dying to try. Diets be damned!"). And give her your ears, both there and in some private place (even the car might do) where she can cry if she wants to.

And please, I hope you get a chance to tell her that that's not what parents have to do. My folks kept me on an extremely short financial leash during college (it wasn't a punishment, it was because they had 2 kids in very expensive schools for my first 2 years and then for my last 2 years they were trying to get my brother on his feet) and I have to say I didn't miss out on parties or pizza or anything like that. I got in the habit of justifying my requests ("Dad, I need to buy toiletries, thanks." "Mom, my sorority is going to the Science Museum, may I please have T fare and enough money to buy a ticket?"). I got into a budgeting habit and really thought about my expenses. Friends of mine bought clothes, went to concerts and even went to places like Bermuda for Spring Break. I didn't, but I didn't think I suffered for it then and I certainly don't think I suffered for it now.

Orphaned freshman - I love it! :-D

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We live in different states. Thank goodness for the kid. I would have had a piece of his ass last night if I could have gotten my hands on him.

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The grandma/ aunt is probably part of this, but really, I think this is a fairly typical step at this point, for the kid to lash out at his parents. Independence is on the horizon, he's excited, he's scared though he doesn't want to admit it, it's this huge thing.

He may, as an only child, and as an only child of a divorced parent, who therefore has been focusing her energies and hopes on him, not to mention an apparently single grandma in situ who is doing the same, feel enormous pressure.

So, he lashes out. Immature? Sure. Hurtful? You bet. Should he be called on it? Definitely. All that said, though, it makes a certain amount of sense. Jim did it. I did it, pretty much to a T -- I'm an only child with divorced parents, and had huge fights with both of them before I left. Didn't let my mom come with me. Sulked in the car when my dad drove me. Got out of there as fast as I could.

I'm certainly not proud of it, but my point is that it didn't take a meddling grandmother to do it. And it came from some legitimate issues, which it sounds like he may have too, about independence and not being my parents' little girl anymore and their unwillingness to accept that.

Do any decisions need to be made right now? I wouldn't think so. Give it some time. Then, if he hasn't already solved it from his end, ask him if he'd rather have his stuff shipped, or go there and drop him off. Then go by his wishes.

I'm already 15 years removed, but even then it wasn't very common for the parents to do the whole moving-in thing... I don't think that would be a source of distress for him, if the family didn't. But most importantly, he's at a place where he wants to be making his own decisions and seeing what the consequences are. So let him. If he's sad about not having his family there after all, well, he's learned something, but it is very far from life-threatening. His family doesn't need to make that decision for him.

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Somewhere out there in Transition Land there is the Great Big How To Achieve Independence Book.

My unfavorite chapters are: "Cut the Apron Strings With Your Trusty Machete" and "Slice the Umbilical Cord with a Rusty Razor Blade.

Believe me, during those years with sons and stepsons, I would have supported Book Burning.

At 18 your nephew should have enough maturity to recognize that he's been a rip-roaring jackass--but keep us posted. Remember, a lot can happen in two weeks.

Eoe, you must be very frustrated trying to cope by telephone. You have my sympathy.

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Thanks Noddy but I'm fine and I hear all of you when you say that his behavior is typical. That's what I told my cousin pretty much, insisting that this is going to blow over, he will realize the error of his ways and apologize and that she WILL be coming here to get him settled in school. She was just so hurt and it hurt me to hear her like that. She works hard for them to live the way they do and she deserves some appreciation and respect. From everybody, including her mother.

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Re: FAMILY?

eoe wrote:

She said that yesterday she and her son had an argument and he stood up in her face, yelling and screaming at her and pretty much told her off, ending it with he was never coming back to her house, never returning to Houston, that she was a lousy mother and a weak woman still under the influence of his no-good father and he was tired of her.

I have an only child too--a son. He's 21 years old. His father and I divorced when he was barely 6 years old. Even though I have been with someone else for a number of years, I still love my ex-husband. That may sound odd, but there is absolutely no reason to hate him. We spent a lot of years together, we care about each other, and we help each other out. My son has benefited from having two parents who get along even though they are divorced.

If my son ever got in my face, yelled and screamed at me, informed me that I was a lousy mother and a weak woman and tired of me, and that he was never returning to my house--I would be mortified. I think I would cry for hours too. BUT, I would never allow an 18-year-old to pass judgment on me and my life. He hasn't lived long enough to have much of a clue about life in general let alone think he has the right to chew out his parents.

Your cousin is worried about this young man's college? She ought to be more concerned about his character. How can this abusive and self-centered son cause such pain to his mother and still stand there with his hand outstretched for his college tuition, room & board? If he thinks he's "man" enough to rule the roost with his verbal trantrums--then he's "man" enough to go out into the world and figure things out all on his own--including supporting himself without an education.

BTW, a grown-up "man" with a fine character would never treat another human being as lousy and disrespectful as this 18 year old treated his mother.

What should your cousin say to her son? Maybe something like this:

"OH? I'm a lousy mother and a weak woman? Maybe I am....therefore, I need to change my ways. I think a 'good' mother would teach a young man who seems to think he's too big for his short-pants a lesson. I have to be STRONG on this issue (otherwise you will continue to berate me for weakness) and throw your 'never want to step foot in my house' butt out in the street. Don't let the door hit you in the behind on your way out, my dear son."

Maybe his "no-good father" will give him money for college. Hmmmmm.

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I've had my son in my face more than once, since his dad likes to stir the pot. My ex has always used our son simply to piss me off and it worked on occation. My son was always terribly sorry after saying some harsh words to me and he felt awful about it. It all ends up being water under the bridge and I think the same thing will happen here. It really sucks when you have someone playing your children against you, but those children grow up to see where it's really at. If this is the the first time it's happened in 18 years, I can see why she's so devistated, but this will blow over in no time, I'm sure.
That blame mommy game my ex so loved to play with my son has now backfired in his face and our son no longer speaks to his dad.

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It seems that although everyone is willing to agree that his behahviour was bad but few seem to to want to acknowledge that maybe there are some genuine issues he is having. If he truly is a spoiled brat then his parents are somewhat responsible since they reared him. If it is his grandmother being an influence on him then she may actually be a bigger problem than a young man throwing a single tantrum. He may also have a perspective on things that no one ever suspected and it is only coming out now because of a) impending "freedom" and b) the stress of a new stage of his life.

My instinct is that the grandmother is evil, but I may be biased since my mother-in-law will bend over backwards for her stepchildren but not give a supportive word to her own flesh and blood. There are some people who are jealous of their children and his grandmother probably falls into that category. I think the manipulation by money is a bad idea, since that will not change his personality for the better. It will get him to behave until he is financially self-supportive and then once he is free he can truly accuse his mother of being lousy.

It may be just a normal tantrum, or it may be a piece of larger things. Wrong is wrong, but I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt if this is unusual behaviour.

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mmm.

If the father is so terrible and the mother so weak, why does he accept the car?

He is a lucky guy to have these problems, two parents who wish him well and are trying to help... who both love him, plus he is getting a free-to-him education and has a nice home. Sheesh.

I wonder if she can discuss all this with Ex... re the mother affecting the boy's ideas. At the same time, it is really between your sister and the boy. She is the one who should talk the talk with him, and I'm sure that would be hard to do.
Emotional talk at a stressed time can sometimes only deepen the gulch.

As to going to school by himself, ah, lots of us did it.
Whether you should insist on his apologizing before you would accompany him - that could also backfire. Apologizing should be his evolved decision.

If you do talk to him about all this, it seems to me that a quiet tone that gives your take on the matter fairly honestly, and fairly undramatically, to give him turnaround room, would be good.

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Quote:

Emotional talk at a stressed time can sometimes only deepen the gulch... Apologizing should be his evolved decision.

If you do talk to him about all this, it seems to me that a quiet tone that gives your take on the matter fairly honestly, and fairly undramatically, to give him turnaround room, would be good.

(*Sigh*) I should contract you to do Cliff Notes versions of some of my posts, since you are more concise in getting across what I attempted to say.
Cool

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This may sound mean, but running to his aid in any way IMO does The Boy a disservice.

If he thinks he can make it on his own, and has the balls to insult her and break her heart, he had better'd have his own plans to make it financially. I think he should worry about getting his OWN stuff to college. Let him FEEL his mother's true value--and FEEL the lack of it!!!

I wouldn't pull the rug out from under him this quarter--but I'd sure as hell not be on hand for ANY ADDITIONAL MONEY the first quarter, and I'd inform him in a short letter that if he felt the way he said he did, I wouldn't want to demoralize him further by allowing him to depend on me, rotten mother that I am (in his words)--and he needed to make his own arrangements for the next funding period, and get a job immediately for expenses.

Let him learn words have consequences.

If and when he apologizes, I'd welcome him back with not another word about the outburst.

He's got a lesson coming.

I went through a much smaller in scope problem with my son. Even though I hardly interfered with him at all, he'd been increasingly, and uncharacteristically caustic with me. One day, I called him on the unnecessary rudeness, and he went off... He was 18 and feeling it, and hurt me horribly. I defended myself and would not back down from my standard of treatment, so he packed his things, put them by the door, and called a cab. I shocked the hell out of the entire household by not begging him to stay. He (stubborn like his mother) went through the whole charade of packing up the cab and driving off. I sat in a chair....

Ten minutes he was back.

They, especially young men, I think, have a deep need to establish some kind of independence--to 'fight the power'. But, they have to see that it has consequences--and we (mothers) may represent the worst kind of authority or dependence, but they ultimately have to appreciate what we supply them--

I think in cases like this--though the words may have been more harsh, and the timing is bad--as the nephew is leaving for school-- his mother shouldn't swallow it. She should set the parameters of what she will accept and what she won't.

I do think, though, that a simple apology should wipe the slate clean. I believe this is more a biological rite of passage--than a character flaw of the boy.

(PS--My son stayed for two years after that-- He only moved out last week. Those two years were a gift for me; our relationship improved back to its' former glory, and when he left, he said things to me I'll cherish the rest of my life. She can get through this, and come out the other side with his respect and admiration. Please tell her.)

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DreamInTheNight wrote:

(*Sigh*) I should contract you to do Cliff Notes versions of some of my posts, since you are more concise in getting across what I attempted to say.

You just caught me on a good day. Sometimes I write incomprehensible babble, and not always with the excuse of being tired or having some wine.
Welcome to a2k. I have noticed your post somewhere else, I remember agreeing with you on another thread.

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I spoke with my cousin this evening. She's feeling much better but her son has yet to apologize. She was in her bedroom, he was in his bedroom and grandma, who answered the phone, was in her room. Seems like the lines have been drawn and everyone is in their corner. She heard from her mother that he's pissed now because he overheard her on the phone yesterday afternoon talking about him. That's when she and I were talking.

I figure that when I talk to him, that will be a good intro for our conversation.

She and her mother went to church today and Cuz, as she always does, extended the olive branch. She's swallowed the situation with her mother, taking into consideration that the kid is leaving and that will not only eliminate the day-to-day cahoots between grandma and her grandson, it will also eradicate the interactions with the ex.

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