25
   

Regarding the Attacks in Paris:

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:02 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
should we be hitting
FBM
 
  4  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:03 am
@farmerman,
Yeah, (pre-treason) Benedict Arnold with his makeshift "navy" is another example.

As far as I can tell, the best adaptive warfare would be take away the enemy's will or reason to attack in the first place. I include politics and economics in what it means to wage war. The strategies we've been using in the Middle East have so far done just the opposite, viz, creating more and more anger and hatred towards the West, as well as more and more Muslim extremists willing to do the violence. We're not adapting very well, seems.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:08 am
@farmerman,
Hitting what?

0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:11 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Ah yes they are moral equivalents: The West spreading its fast food joints around the world and jihadists murdering civilians.


Did I say they were equivalent? I recall saying that there's culpability on both sides. Millions are effectively enslaved in sweat shops around the globe in order to make the shirts, shoes, electronics, etc, for the fat cat profiteers. No, it's not the same thing as what the jihadists are doing, but it is extremely unfair exploitation, and on a much, much larger scale than what the jihadists are doing.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:11 am
@FBM,
And while Western fast food joins are the moral equivalents of terrorist murders, our failure is to fight them. Better we just absorb their blows without retaliation because eventually they will get tired of killing us.

What is truly pathetic is that you think this is somehow sophisticated thinking.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:12 am
@FBM,
You didn't have to say those exact words, they were clearly implied.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:12 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

And while Western fast food joins are the moral equivalents of terrorist murders, our failure is to fight them. Better we just absorb their blows without retaliation because eventually they will get tired of killing us.

What is truly pathetic is that you think this is somehow sophisticated thinking.



And making strawman appeals is sophisticated. OK.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:13 am
@FBM,
What strawman?

FBM
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:13 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You didn't have to say those exact words, they were clearly implied.


How about just taking the words that I write instead of projecting your own biases onto them?
FBM
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:14 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

What strawman?




Quote:
And while Western fast food joins are the moral equivalents of terrorist murders
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:15 am
@FBM,
I took the words you wrote.

Tell me how I misinterpreted them.
FBM
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:16 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Show me where I said that they were moral equivalents.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:20 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Western hegemony isn't non-existent, nor is Muslim extremism. We need to be rid of both of them, as far as I can tell. Neither trying to coca-colonize the world for profit nor trying to force the whole world to conform to a single religion is going to go well.


Tell me how this doesn't imply both are on the same footing.

If you didn't mean to imply they were morally equivalent you should have chosen your words more carefully instead of trying to backtrack after the fact.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:22 am
@FBM,
Do you know the definition of a strawman argument?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:24 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Dental cavities aren't non-existent, nor is pancreatic cancer. We need to be rid of both of them, as far as I can tell.

You're injecting your own biases into what I wrote. There is nothing in what I wrote that says they are morally equivalent. At best, it implies that they're in the same ballpark. But to characterize even that as saying that they're morally equivalent is a strawman.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:26 am
@FBM,
As you will.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:47 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Going back centuries to solve today's problems. Good idea. Because, y'know, nothing changes over time, and there's no such thing as regional or cultural differences. Let's just build a giant wooden horse, put some soldiers inside and give it to ISIS. Or put some smallpox on some blankets and hand them out. Or let's just do Vietnam again. One solution from history is as good as any other, eh? There's no way that yet another new breed of terrorists will arise in the region or the religion, full of resentment towards foreign powers, right? Rolling Eyes

Generals that fight the last war tend to lose. Gotta keep up with the times.


And this is the basis of your apparent argument that the West should just take these terrorist attacks in stride while they simultaneously mend their evil ways in the region.

Yes, if our response to these attacks continues to be hampered by the political influence of people such as yourself and feckless leaders like Obama we will leave the region ripe for the rise of yet another terrorist group to take the place of the one we temporarily defeated, but there's really no need to fear such a result since our leaders lack the will to defeat the present group of terrorists.

By all means, let's withdraw from the rest of the world or better still let us only be involved in ways which all of the locals approve: We give them money and they give us nothing in return.

I truly wish we could just withdraw from global politics and let all the assholes and murderers kill each other off, but the reality is that eventually one of the assholes will rise to the top of the heap and they will not be content with ruling the lands they have conquered. History has shown that they never, ever are. So we can "interfere" and fight them now or wait until they have consolidated their power and fight them later.

You seem to think that nations if just left alone will all eventually find their way to democratic peacefulness.

More sophisticated thinking.
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:57 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
That's it? More strawman approach? Appeal to ridicule?
Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 01:58 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Appeal to ridicule?


Uou are very good at that!
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 Nov, 2015 03:46 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Rather than have you keep wrongly and hyperbolically speculating about my position regarding what should be done in response to ISIS, I do agree that a military response is called for, but also that the US restructure its presence in the region, particularly regarding Israel and Saudi Arabia. That is NOT saying that the US should withdraw "from the rest of the world" or even from that region. BUT, if we keep on doing what we've been doing, how can we reasonably expect different results? If the only answer we have is to kill off the current incarnation of Islamic extremism without addressing the underlying causes, then it's just going to spring up again in the next generation, if recent history tells us anything.
 

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