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Turn on the Republican convention right now! Bush Sr.'s on!

 
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 12:56 am
by the way did any of you guys see the outro with miller on cnn? the man has lost his mind...
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 02:59 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
zell and dick. a pair of drama queens that have not stated one thing that they plan to do.

"troubling"
Huh? Zell will travel around signing his book... and Cheney's job will continue to be; be the tiebreaking voter and check on the President's health each day.

Call them what ever you wish; they each shoveled a lot of dirt on Kerry's shallow grave yesterday. Kerry's toast.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 03:07 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:


Call them what ever you wish; they each shoveled a lot of dirt on Kerry's shallow grave yesterday. Kerry's toast.


gotta disagree with ya on this one bill.. go here for why i say that;

if you were...
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 03:36 am
Nimh has been busting his ass on that thread and like I said I don't want to jack it for this. I do think you are expressing opinions of wishful thinking...
Bush has already absorbed all the punches the left has to throw. F911 is arguably the biggest piece of propaganda ever thrown at a sitting President... and he's still sitting even in the polls.

Kerry, on the other hand, is still being introduced to the American people. The more they learn, the less they like. His own contradicting statements are too many and his voice is unbearable (I know that should be irrelevant, but it's not). We'll see.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 05:29 am
Zell was on message, Matthews didn't know whether wind his ass or scratch his watch...




Matthews: Do you believe truthfully that John Kerry wants to defeat the world with spitballs?

Zell: That was a metaphor. You know what a metaphor is?

Matthews: Well, what do you mean by that metaphor?

Zell: He wanted to cancel these weapons programs. Cancel, means to do away with. I think we ought to cancel this interview.

Matthews: Well, that would be my loss Senator. Well, let me ask you about this because I think you have a view on reporters of the world. You said, "It was often the soldier, not the reporter, who has given the freedom of the press." What was your point?

Zell: Well, it certainly got a rise out of you.

Matthews: Well, it's a shot.

Zell: You're a reporter. You didn't have anything to do with the freedom of the press.

Matthews: Why did you single out reporters… Because you could get an applause line at a conservative convention.

J.C. Watts: Now come on, Chris.

Zell: You're hopeless. I wish I was over there. In fact I wish we lived in the…

Matthews: If a Republican Senator broke ranks and spoke for the democrats would you respect him?

Zell: Yes, I've seen that happen from time to time.

Matthews: Jim Jeffords switched parties after getting elected…

Zell: Wait a minute, wait a minute… If you're going to ask a question..

Matthews: It's a tough question. It takes a few words.

Zell: Get out of my face! If you're going to ask me a question, then step back, and let me answer! I wish we lived in a day where you can challenge a person to a duel. Now that would be pretty good. (Norah Odonell loud laughter)

Don't pull that stuff on me like you did that young lady when you had her brow beaten to death. I'm not her! I'm not her! You get in my face I'm going to get back in your face. [Jim's note: I presume this is a reference to Michelle Malkin?]

Matthews: Senator can I speak softly to you?

Zell: No, no. You won't give me a chance to answer. You ask these questions and then you just talk over while I'm trying to answer just like you did that woman the other day. Why don't why I even came on this program.

Matthews: Well, I'm glad you did. Well let me ask you this…

Zell: No, Are you going to shut up after you ask me! Are going to give me a chance to answer it.

Matthews: Yes, sir. I'm going to give you a chance to answer.
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Harper
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 05:35 am
These are your heroes, Zell Miller? Pathetic.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 05:52 am
Quote:
Zell: That was a metaphor. You know what a metaphor is?

Zell: He wanted to cancel these weapons programs. Cancel, means to do away with. I think we ought to cancel this interview.

Zell: Well, it certainly got a rise out of you.

Zell: You're a reporter. You didn't have anything to do with the freedom of the press.

Zell: You're hopeless. I wish I was over there. In fact I wish we lived in the…


Quote:
Matthews: If a Republican Senator broke ranks and spoke for the democrats would you respect him?

Zell: Yes, I've seen that happen from time to time.

Matthews: Jim Jeffords switched parties after getting elected…

Zell: Wait a minute, wait a minute… If you're going to ask a question..

Matthews: It's a tough question. It takes a few words.

Zell: Get out of my face! If you're going to ask me a question, then step back, and let me answer! I wish we lived in a day where you can challenge a person to a duel. Now that would be pretty good.

Don't pull that stuff on me like you did that young lady when you had her brow beaten to death. I'm not her! I'm not her! You get in my face I'm going to get back in your face.

Matthews: Senator can I speak softly to you?

Zell: No, no. You won't give me a chance to answer. [..] Why don't why I even came on this program.

Matthews: Well, I'm glad you did. Well let me ask you this…

Zell: No, Are you going to shut up after you ask me! Are going to give me a chance to answer it.


Shocked Shocked Shocked

Oh my god thats embarassing. What an utter fool he made of himself.

Politicians oughtn't behave like that <shakes head>. Like some ranting bully uncle. Or some high school jock trying to intimidate the kids. Thats pretty pathetic for a politician.

Dont they have any sense of being supposed to represent, you know, the best and brightest? Any sense of stature, of behaving like a person in an official position? This is like hearing a hooligan brawl!

Cant help thinking its no wonder that so few people still vote in America ...
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 05:56 am
Reporters need to be reminded of their role in this Republic, nimh, and Zell did that with a zeal that had me laughing at Matthews retreat from his courtesy lesson.
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 06:00 am
Chris Matthiews is a deliberately bombastic ass. His shtick is to browbeat his sbjects to control the impression left by the "interview". This is not rational discourse in the ordinary sense of the word. Zell Miller treated him as he deserved - and in the process beat Matthews at his own game..
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 10:10 am
Larry434 wrote:
Reporters need to be reminded of their role in this Republic, nimh, and Zell did that with a zeal that had me laughing at Matthews retreat from his courtesy lesson.


What exactly is the role of a free press in the Republic?
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 10:24 am
Zell Miller is a bombastic pr*ck who hasn't a CLUE regarding his own party. And I got to say that because we have a thing called the 1st amendment. Reporters also have every right to report whatever they want, thanx to the 1st amendment of the Constitution.

So, Larry434, what EXACTLY is the role of a free press in the Republic?
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 11:04 am
I feel sorry for Kerry and the DNC so I'm donating 3 cases of drinking straws for him to shoot spitballs with.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 11:07 am
If zell Miller spoke at the Democratic convention with the same zest, you would be praising him up and down as the next coming of Bill himself.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 11:13 am
The DNC should be thanking Zell for that speech but they have their head so far up their arse... besides being stuck with a lemon....but hey there haven't been too many lemon laws in politics excersized except for Gray Davis...
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maya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 11:20 am
Zell Miller reminds me off my next door neighbor. It's called early onset
of altzheimers. Mark my words.....(stem cell anyone)
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 11:43 am
Zell is angry, not sick. Everything he and others worked for in that party for years he feels the mainstream has been ignored by the modern Dem direction.

He has a right as an American, as an ex- Marine, as a father, as a grandfather to stand up like a man to do and say what he thinks is the highest priority...protecting his family.

I'm sure anger coupled with making a speech at the oppositions Convention would make one more than a little shaky and nervous.

It was a great speech either way, emotional or if it had been delivered more calmly.

And it's not like that was the first time he's voiced his concerns in public.

He's 72 years old and still has some fire in the belly, we should all be so lucky.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 12:07 pm
I think this one needs to be read in full:

Quote:
Zellotry

A critic could credibly describe Senator Zell Miller's speech to the Republican Convention as angry, misleading, or both. But to dwell on either the tone or veracity of Miller's text somehow misses the point given the scene that unfolded at Madison Square Garden last night. In an address originally billed as a critique of John Kerry's national security credentials, Miller essentially branded the Democrats as traitors because they haven't fallen in line with President Bush on all matters of national security. It was one of the most vile political speeches in recent American history, every bit as offensive as Pat Buchanan's infamous call in 1992 for "religious war" and, perhaps, a little more disturbing. Buchanan's speech, after all, was an assault on decency. Last night Miller declared war on democracy.

For several days now, Republicans have hammered away at John Kerry's qualifications to be commander-in-chief, arguing that he's too indecisive, too dishonest, or simply too wimpy to keep the country safe from terrorists. And make no mistake: That's a perfectly legitimate claim to make in a presidential campaign, whether you agree with it or not. Indeed, arguing over which presidential candidate would do a better job of protecting America is precisely the argument America should be having this year.

But Miller went well beyond questioning Kerry's leadership ability or philosophy. Miller questioned his motives. Citing the story of Republican Wendell Wilkie, who in 1940 embraced Franklin Roosevelt's call for a peacetime draft because "he would rather lose the election than make national security a partisan campaign issue," Miller asked why Democrats had failed to show their president similar deference. "Where are such statesmen today? Where is the bipartisanship in this country when we need it most?" Then Miller quickly supplied an answer: "Today's Democratic leaders," he said, are "motivated more by partisan politics than by national security."

Never mind all the inconvenient facts that get in the way of that narrative, like the fact that Democrats actually showed Bush enormous deference after 9/11, bestowing bipartisan support upon both the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq. (Remember, it was precisely Democrats' acquiescence to the Iraq war that fueled Howard Dean's insurgency.) And never mind that, on those occasions when Democrats did fight the president, it was precisely because Democrats believed their approach (spending more on homeland defense, using ground troops in Tora Bora, building a stronger international coalition, etc.) would actually make America safer.

Never mind all of that because the point of Miller's speech wasn't to answer specific questions about President Bush's foreign policy (perhaps because those questions are increasingly difficult for Miller and the president's defenders to answer). It was to declare such questions beyond the boundaries of respectable debate. It was to brand dissent--whether by politicians, commentators, or activists--an act of anti-Americanism, and to do so with as much blood-drenched imagery as possible:

Quote:
...it is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the agitator, who has given us the freedom to protest. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag who gives that protester the freedom to abuse and burn that flag. No one should dare to even think about being the commander-in-chief of this country if he doesn't believe with all his heart that our soldiers are liberators abroad and defenders of freedom at home. But don't waste your breath telling that to the leaders of my party today. In their warped way of thinking America is the problem, not the solution.

Are there people on the left of American politics who think America is the problem? Sure. Are some even hostile to American troops? A few, maybe. But to level such accusations at Kerry, who volunteered for frontline service in Vietnam and won medals for his heroic performance there, seems absurd on its face. (It's even more absurd in the case of such prominent Democrats as Max Cleland, Daniel Inoye, Bob Kerrey, and Charlie Rangel, who suffered serious wounds in battle.) Alas, it's probably no more absurd than making the ultimate accusation of treason against Kerry, that he'd hand the reigns of American power over to a foreign country: "Kerry would let Paris decide when America needs defending. ... This politician wants to be leader of the free world. Free for how long?"

Of course, Kerry made it quite clear at the Democratic Convention that "I will never give any nation or international institution a veto over our national security." But, really, what's the point in even arguing about what Kerry said? Miller obviously could care less about actual facts. His intention was to paint all of Bush's critics with one broad, dark paint brush--to declare any attack on the president or his policies, whatever the source, an attack on America itself. Thus the signature line: "Our nation is being torn apart and made weaker because of the Democrats' manic obsession to bring down our commander-in-chief."

Note the curious phrasing, "bring down our commander-in-chief." In the United States we don't "bring down" our leaders. We vote them out of office. And before we do that, we ask them hard questions about the way they conduct their business. Miller may not agree; judging from the zesty reaction he received from the delegates last night, neither may most officials in the Republican Party. But they would all do well to remember the wisdom one of their own heroes, Theodore Roosevelt, expressed a century ago: "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President."
0 Replies
 
angie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 12:39 pm
Enjoy your self-congratulatory moments, guys. Many of the Dems did a few weeks ago.

The truth of course, as you well know, is that the election is, always has been, and will continue to be, extremely close.

Any other "conclusion" by anyone on either side is, to use OCCOM's astute phrase "wishful thinking". The polls have virtually remained the same, and will probably continue to do so, though I personally do not put much faith in them. The fact is, there are a few battleground states where the elecoral votes are still up for grabs, and the election will be decided in those states.


So, please, go ahead, enjoy your "wishful thinking" moment, relax, get nice and complacent. Keep calling Kerry "toast"; laugh your blind a$$es off while doing so. Of course, saying it over and over won't make it any truer than the constant repetition of "Saddam / 911" makes that connection real.

But know this: the Kerry forces are working around the clock in those battleground states, taking nothing for granted.

I'll leave you now to your "victory"party. Enjoy!!


I think I'll wait until November to celebrate. Right now, I have lots of work to do and another check to write to the DNC.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 12:41 pm
Zell gave the best, most impassioned speech at either Convention.

He speaks for a lot of people.

He got votes for Bush.

He listed the weapons Kerry voted against. This is important for people to know.

It has been recorded that Kerry voted against the 87 billion for political expediency, per Biden. Whoever wrote that article nimh brought is a liar. Democrats were not esentially told they are traitors if they don't back Bush. Democrats of good conscience disagree with Bush's positions. Democrats, who spin everything in the worst possible light--even when they know better--are the ones Zell refers to.

That article is a good example of a liberal 'journalist' trying to protect the DNC's flank.

The writer concocted an accusation, and then turned it into some monstrous charge against Miller.

They accused him of a war on Democracy. How purely evil to use your job to fabricate lies, and demonize a sincere, pissed off old man.

I hope he sues.

(And what Miller said about Kerry was no worse than the crap I have heard about Bush for the past few years. Dems: Don't dish it out if you can't take it.)

I'll never watch Matthews again. He attacked Miller because he's a Matthews is a Democrat. Miller had the right to say what he did. Does he really think Miller thought Kerry was going to use spitballs? Of course not--and it was a stupid question. That's alright. I imagine I'm not the only one who'll be sending letters demanding action about Matthews' partisan questioning.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Sep, 2004 12:46 pm
Certainly none of Miller's (or any Republican's) criticism's of the personal traits of any democrats is any worse than the rather steady drumbeat about Bush's supposed lack of intellectual power from Democrats.

Republicans who view Kerry's post Vietnam testimony before the Congress as a self-serving betrayal of both those with whom he served and the country, done for personal notoriety and gain (I am one) don't have much trouble applying similar motives to his behavior as a candidate. Both arise from the same character traits. I don't claim the ability to truly know these aspects of Kerry's character in a moral sense. However, I do believe the possibility is sufficiently likely to deny him my vote in the election.
0 Replies
 
 

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