23
   

Democratic Party Debates - Election 2016

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:58 am
@woiyo,
woiyo wrote:

And what you got was a Bull*(&^ love fest. 4 people on stage saying if you vote for me, college education will be free, medical coverage will be free, you can stay home and get paid for free, you will get paid more to do less ..... how inspiring !!!! Of course they did not explain HOW all this free stuff will be given to us, but why do I care....it's free !!!!! VOTE FOR ME !!!!


What I got was what I hoped for...substance.

IF you cannot see it...that is your problem.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:30 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
What I got was what I hoped for...substance.


And we all know what that substance is, the kind you flush. Where were the questions on ISIS? Clearly foreign policy was omitted for Killarys sake. And the failing economy was never discussed rationally when O'Malley said what Obama had done is something that is good?

It was just vague political bullshit and no different than any gathering of politicians telling Americans how much they will give away. And the rich demonized, like usual, and more plans to tax the job creators right out of business.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:34 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
What I got was what I hoped for...substance.


And we all know what that substance is, the kind you flush. Where were the questions on ISIS? Clearly foreign policy was omitted for Killarys sake. And the failing economy was never discussed rationally when O'Malley said what Obama had done is something that is good?

It was just vague political bullshit and no different than any gathering of politicians telling Americans how much they will give away. And the rich demonized, like usual, and more plans to tax the job creators right out of business.



Like I said...if you cannot see the substance that was there...it is your problem.

They were political...I expected that. But on the whole, I applaud them. They sure as hell showed me a lot more than the clown car group.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Like I said...if you cannot see the substance that was there...it is your problem.


Not really. You can't see what isn't there. So the only problem I see is you saying substance, again, and not telling us what it was. Enlighten me.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 10:47 am
The responses from various corners is interesting. When it comes to who won or lost, I think that unlike a sporting event where you compete against others, each person was competing against different standards. Outside the top two, the standard was "show you are competitive and have something to add to the race". I think all three failed. None of them sounded like idiots but none of them moved the bar and I can't see them hanging on after New Hampshire. For Sanders, the standard was "show you can appeal to a wider audience with your populist positions and show some knowledge on topics outside your economic forte." I think Sanders won although not overwhelmingly. For Clinton the standard was "show you actually know stuff and can champion the party instead of just accepting the crown." I think Clinton won there too. She was engaged and came to debate. I think Clinton wins twice, because if you are a run of the mill Democratic voter and all you've been hearing is email server and Benghazi, seeing a confident and prepared Clinton demonstrate knowledge on a decently wide range of topics is something that you haven't seen. This debate did a lot to dispel the haze the Republicans have been trying to spin around her.
woiyo
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 11:17 am
@Frank Apisa,
Gee Frank. I must have a hearing problem as I missed the SUBSTANCE you mention. or maybe that substance is the same stuff I flushed down the toilet.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 11:43 am
@engineer,

Quote:
None of them sounded like idiots


Your right, they all did.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:38 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Like I said...if you cannot see the substance that was there...it is your problem.


Not really. You can't see what isn't there. So the only problem I see is you saying substance, again, and not telling us what it was. Enlighten me.


I do not have the inclination to do that, CJ...and I seriously doubt I have anywhere near the time to do it.

It would be a major undertaking.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:40 pm
@woiyo,
woiyo wrote:

Gee Frank. I must have a hearing problem as I missed the SUBSTANCE you mention. or maybe that substance is the same stuff I flushed down the toilet.


Your problem, Woiyo!
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:41 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I do not have the inclination to do that, CJ


You never do. You have been saying nothing for a long time.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:51 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
I do not have the inclination to do that, CJ


You never do. You have been saying nothing for a long time.



Oh, I have been saying quite a bit. And most of it is worthwhile.

But if you think I want to take on the Herculean task of "enlightening" you...you'd better think again.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:56 pm
Quote:
Dance of the Lemons

Seven lowlights from the dumbest debate in the history of the republic.


That is one way to look at the substance.
Quote:
1. HILLARY: “I didn’t take a position on Keystone until I took a position on Keystone.”
2. SANDERS: The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails!
allowing himself to be used as a shill for the frontrunner. Even before he said it he admitted it was stupid politics to defend her, and then proceeded to do the stupid thing.
3. HILLARY: I’m not a political insider, on account of my indoor plumbing.
4. SANDERS: The planet won’t be habitable in a generation unless you give up your Chevy Tahoe.
5. HILLARY: Edward Snowden ought to get prosecuted for letting sensitive information fall into enemy hands. http://www.doomjunkie.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif
Tell us all about that
6. SANDERS: I think Vladimir Putin already regrets taking Crimea, and it’s a matter of time before he’ll regret his Syria policy and come to us for help.
7. O’MALLEY: “I think Assad’s invasion of Syria will be seen as a blunder.”


The president of a country can't invade his own country. Lemons are getting the short end of this.

http://spectator.org/articles/64364/dance-lemons
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 02:08 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Oh, I have been saying quite a bit. And most of it is worthwhile.

But if you think I want to take on the Herculean task of "enlightening" you...you'd better think again.


Same ****, different day.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 02:13 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Oh, I have been saying quite a bit. And most of it is worthwhile.

But if you think I want to take on the Herculean task of "enlightening" you...you'd better think again.


Same ****, different day.



Yup...and always in that pink color!
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:05 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
I think that unlike a sporting event where you compete against others, each person was competing against different standards

The standards are the same, gaining votes. Which is not the same as getting the chattering class on corporate media to say that you won. We will know in about a week who won, and according to everything I have seen on social media so far it was Sanders.

Quote:
. For Clinton the standard was "show you actually know stuff and can champion the party instead of just accepting the crown."
I noticed little D ass kissing and surprisingly little R bashing from Hillary.

Quote:
Clinton demonstrate knowledge on a decently wide range of topics is something that you haven't seen.
She did what, 25 debates 8 years ago, and she has been yakking on our TV's for three decades, how many people had not seen Hillary in action before last night?

And Sanders was either lying or not aware of reality with his claim that Americans dont care about Hillary clinton not protecting state secrets

Quote:
However, a Washington Post piece on Wednesday told a different story. Americans not tired of hearing about the Hillary Clinton emails, and it’s not just Republicans who are dissatisfied with Clinton’s defense thus far.
Not relying simply on one poll to prove the point, WashPo‘s Philip Bump pointed out how this issue could be a significant problem for Clinton as she (presumably) moves out of primary season and into the actual race for President.

One area where Sanders was right, Bump notes, was on the topic of Democrats being sick and tired of the Hillary Clinton emails, but it became another story entirely when other voters were polled on the matter. The interest in the truth about Hillary’s emails has only grown from March to September as an FBI investigation began and virtually every defense the former First Lady and Secretary of State offered faced contradictions to the facts

When asking the question of whether Hillary Clinton emails were a “legitimate campaign issue,” more than 70 percent of Republicans and around 50 percent of Independents said that it was, according to a Washington Post/ABC News poll referenced in Bump’s piece.
When asked whether Clinton’s responses on the email issue were satisfactory, 50 percent of respondents in a CBS News/New York Times poll (also referenced) said they were “mostly unsatisfied” compared to 32 percent who were “mostly satisfied.” This poll, conducted in September, represented a 10 percent jump in the number of “mostly unsatisfied” responses since March 2015.
The most concerning poll, however, came from CNN/ORC, which posed the question, “Do you think Clinton did anything wrong on emails?”
In August, a staggering 56 percent of all respondents said she had compared to just 39 percent, who thought otherwise.
Sanders’ attempt to flippantly dismiss Hillary Clinton emails as a campaign issue works for now — since it’s the Democratic vote he’s going after — but once you get past that, it becomes quite concerning, especially since most candidates — Democrat or Republican — still need the Independent vote in order to win the White House.

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2495361/hillary-clinton-emails-arent-going-away-why-democrats-need-to-wake-up/#KmvbDLljQmWwyL1t.99


And just so you know flippantly dismissing the importance of something that the American people care about is not good for the D brand, the more D's who do it the worse this goes for the D's.

EDIT: She was prime Hillary last night, and while it is clear that prime Hillary played well with the elite I have no reason to think that she played well with the little people, the people who will decide who our next president it. We need to wait a week to see how this went for Hillary.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
The real loser here might turn out to be the Elite Propaganda Machine AKA corporate media. People will notice that almost everyone on corporate media says that Hillary won big, if they today are hearing from their friends and co-workers that Sanders won then it will be the media that takes the hit for not knowing what is going on. The 15 million people who watched the show are going to have more pull than the opinion of the media, which as we know is held in very low repute and for good reason. The problem may have gotten worse today.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

The real loser here might turn out to be the Elite Propaganda Machine AKA corporate media. People will notice that almost everyone on corporate media says that Hillary won big, if they today are hearing from their friends and co-workers that Sanders won then it will be the media that takes the hit for not knowing what is going on. The 15 million people who watched the show are going to have more pull than the opinion of the media, which as we know is held in very low repute and for good reason. The problem may have gotten worse today.


The real winner was the American public, Hawk.

These people acted like adults...in stark contrast to what the GOP "candidates" did when they had the chance.

I am enjoying this election more than you can imagine.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:49 pm
Notable for being the exception to the rule the Chicago Trib Editors Board says Sanders won

Quote:
Sanders, though, had a better night. Much as Republican debates showcased Donald Trump, this debate showcased Sanders' authenticity. The notion of anyone asking if he would change positions to win votes is preposterous.

Sanders is the reason Democrats have a serious primary race. And he came across Tuesday night as a candidate who believes what he believes and won't waffle. He voiced positions that will give some Democrats pause; he isn't a pacifist, he said, and as commander in chief wouldn't hesitate to take America to war. Clinton, meanwhile, answered a challenge to her Senate vote for war in Iraq not with a defense or an apology, but by invoking President Barack Obama: Even after that vote, he chose her as secretary of state. Sorry, but it sounded lame.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-democratic-debate-clinton-sanders-edit-1014-20151013-story.html
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:51 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The real winner was the American public, Hawk.

When presidential candidates get on a televised stage to talk about what the American people care about, and the American people listen and consider what we have heard, then the American people are going to win. Given the ratings of the debates so far certainly the American Public is winning.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 03:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
The snap polls are consistent with Sanders getting between 70-85% of the votes for winning the debate

Sanders
Clinton
Webb
O'Malley
Chafee


The sanders win is probably overstated because I am guessing that Hillary does better with old folks than Sanders, though I dont know this.

 

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