25
   

Deadly shooting on Oregon college campus

 
 
glitterbag
 
  6  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 08:52 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Where did you hear that bullshit? Why do you continue to make things up about the US? I guess that means the UK is the home of the muscle car?


I've always driven with a manual transmission, how about you? My eyes glaze over when the salesmen try convincing me that you can shift the automatic transmission by using simply a paddle. And as far as muscle cars???? I can't remember how long its been since Detroit came up with a high performance car. I used to prefer manual simply because of the control, now I prefer them because car jackers usually don't know how to drive That might sound like over thinking, and I would agree if my own father hadn't been carjacked and held captive in 1998 when he was 82, actually carjacked at gunpoint by a 37 year old man recently released from prison on parole. The man's name was Neil Whiting, he detained my father from around 7 0r 8 in the evening until 2 in the morning.

I understand that gun violence seems remote to most Americans, but it happens all the time. My father wasn't shot but he was held captive and frankly he was never quite the same after that. My Dad survived the great depression, and fought during WWII. After all his contributions, he raised a family, at one time had one full time and 2 part time jobs and when he was 82 a crack addict recently released from prison who managed to get a gun, made my father realize all of his efforts were moot.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 11:05 pm
@glitterbag,
An you do know that the man who car jacked your father under all states and federal laws could not legally buy let alone own a firearm?

All the firearms laws that can be passed only will interfere and annoyed the honest non-criminal citizens it will not offer you or me or your father any protection from such a carjacker being armed to the teeth.

Footnote it would likely be better if the carjacker could just drive off with your car instead of needing you to do the driving.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Oct, 2015 11:17 pm
@glitterbag,
Oh, I am happy that your father survived his carjacking but it is amusing that a armed drug dealer was the person in the ended up freeing you father from this asshole.

So even a criminal IE drug dealer that happen to be armed can be a life saver.

Quote:

http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/981107.html

Eventually, one of the dealers forced the carjacker at gunpoint to free
Golden and a group of drug dealers persuaded Golden to drive them to a
hotel, where they told him about 1 a.m. that he could go, police said.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:32 am
@Baldimo,
Sound like I've hit a nerve. Can you handle a manual gearbox? Bet you can't.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:51 am
@izzythepush,
Written by an American petrolhead about the merits of manual transmission.

Quote:
Best Theft Deterrent – Let’s face it, in the US, unless you’re Nicholas Cage, your average car thief can’t drive a stick. A good example is this incident in which some lousy car thieves jump into a Toyota Tercel and after realizing the car had a standard transmission they made the owner drive – Of course they got caught. A rather humorous judge recommends car thieves should learn to drive stick. So there you have it. A stick shift in your car might be more effective than an alarm system, “The Club”, or any of the dozen other car theft deterrent devices.


http://rallyways.com/4678/should-i-learn-to-drive-a-stick-shift-car/
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 01:53 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Written by an American petrolhead about the merits of manual transmission.

Quote:
Best Theft Deterrent – Let’s face it, in the US, unless you’re Nicholas Cage, your average car thief can’t drive a stick. A good example is this incident in which some lousy car thieves jump into a Toyota Tercel and after realizing the car had a standard transmission they made the owner drive – Of course they got caught. A rather humorous judge recommends car thieves should learn to drive stick. So there you have it. A stick shift in your car might be more effective than an alarm system, “The Club”, or any of the dozen other car theft deterrent devices.


http://rallyways.com/4678/should-i-learn-to-drive-a-stick-shift-car/


Are you lost?

Quote:
Deadly shooting on Oregon college campus
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 02:37 am
@hawkeye10,
I'm not remotely lost, but trust you to step in only at the point your side has lost the argument. My original point was in response to BillRM's nonsensical claim that a ban on guns would lead to increase in illegal bomb manufacture.

My point being if a substantial number of Americans can't be bothered to learn to drive a manual transmission they're hardly likely to learn bomb manufacture. Baldy disputed reality, like he so often does, when I reiterated reality as seen through the eyes of an American car enthusiast you step in, claiming it's off topic.

You do this every time you lose the argument, I note you didn't tell Baldy he was off topic. Your lot have been deliberately off topic from the off, we've had mental illness, knife massacres and bomb making all used as a smokescreen to avoid dealing with the real issue. Lack of gun control leads to frequent multiple homicides.

Try being honest for once, the only person you're fooling is yourself.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 05:11 am
Quote:
A US gun shop has been ordered to pay nearly $6m (£3.9m) in compensation to two police officers severely wounded by a weapon illegally bought there.

A Milwaukee jury found that Badger Guns should have realised that a man buying a firearm in 2009 intended to pass it on to the teenager at his side.

The teenager went on to shoot the two officers in the face when they stopped him riding his bike on the pavement.

Officials said over 500 firearms used in crimes had been traced to the store.

Officers Bryan Norberg and Graham Kunisch sued Badger Guns for negligence after teenager Julius Burton was able to get hold of the Taurus .40-calibre handgun by giving $40 to another man, a so-called "straw buyer", to buy it at the store in West Milwaukee.

In the confrontation with Burton, a bullet shattered eight of Mr Norberg's teeth, blew through his cheek and lodged into his shoulder. Mr Kunisch was shot several times. He lost an eye and part of the frontal lobe of his brain and was forced to retire.

Lawyers for store owner Adam Allan claimed he could not be held responsible for the sale and said the sales clerk had been deceived rather than negligent.

But jurors ordered the store to pay Norberg $1.5m and Kunisch $3.6m, along with punitive damages of $730,000.

The officers' lawyer said his clients were "very relieved", but said he anticipated years of appeals.

Burton is serving an 80-year sentence for the attack, while the man who bought the gun for him was jailed for two years.

Officials have described Badger Guns - which has since reopened under a new name, Brew City Shooters Supply, but the same ownership - as the number one crime dealer in America after more than 500 firearms recovered from crime scenes were traced back to it.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34525150
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 05:37 am
@izzythepush,
I agree with the officers, the underage boy said right in front of the gun sale owner, "that's the one I want."

Quote:
MILWAUKEE — At 18, Julius Burton could not legally buy a gun. So he paid a 21-year-old acquaintance $40 to accompany him to Badger Guns, just outside the city limits here, and be the official buyer of a weapon.

Mr. Burton pointed to a Taurus semiautomatic pistol and said, “That’s the one I want,” according to surveillance video from that day in 2009 and trial testimony. Then he helped his friend, who was struggling to fill out a two-page form. A hovering store clerk helped as well, showing the friend how to correct mistakes and ensure he was listed as the buyer.

A month later, on June 9, 2009, Mr. Burton shot two police officers with the Taurus. One lost an eye and was left with brain damage; the other was seriously wounded in the face.

It was a classic straw purchase, an important way guns enter the underground market, though an unusually well-documented one because of the video and the quick identification of the true buyer.


source

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 07:11 am
@revelette2,
Straw buying is also illegal and yet happen all the times and it is rare indeed that there is such detail records/videos existing to proved that the seller should had known that was what was going on.

Likely lessons taken by gun shop owners from this verdict do not keep audio as well as video record and wiped them after a few days in any case.
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 07:26 am
@BillRM,
Likely lesson should be not to sell to buyers when it is clear the buyer is buying from an under aged person standing right next to him, talking about the gun he wanted. The lesson should not be to be more clever in covering it up. Geez.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 07:45 am
@BillRM,
That sounds like you're quite happy about guns being illegally sold to minors, your only problem is that they didn't wipe their vids clean. This is just like when that nonce was caught watching graphic child pornography on a passenger flight and you started talking about how your computer security would stop you being caught like that.

Normal people don't think like that.
Leadfoot
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:00 am
@glitterbag,
Quote:
stop trying to confuse the tragedy by blaming the victims.

That YOU would try to confuse the tragedy by claiming anyone is 'blaming the victims' is both ironic and disgusting.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:31 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Normal people don't think like that.


Sorry but there is no question that lawyers who have gun shop owners as clients will indeed be telling them not to keep surveillance records that can be used against them at some future time in civil torts.

Now whether lawyers are normal people or not is an open question.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:36 am
@BillRM,
I am sure lawyers tell killers not kill people in front of witnesses too, doesn't mean it is my thought when I hear about it happening.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:39 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
Likely lesson should be not to sell to buyers when it is clear the buyer is buying from an under aged person standing right next to him, talking about the gun he wanted. The lesson should not be to be more clever in covering it up. Geez.


True but Geez is fine but no matter what the training of employees might be there is no solid guarantee that a clerk is not going to end up acting like a fool as in this case.

Unless the clerk is also the owner or the owner knew that his or her clerks was acting in such a manner and did not stop them from doing so taking the owner livelihood away from him or her is not a good outcome either.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:42 am
@BillRM,
From what I understand, there have been problems with that store owner in the past.

Quote:
Badger Guns, in the village of West Milwaukee, had a long history of legal violations, official warnings and machinations to prevent the revocation of its firearms license, as The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has described in a series of reports. A second lawsuit against the store is pending in Milwaukee, also involving a weapon that was used to shoot police officers.

At the time of the sale to Mr. Burton, the store was owned by Mr. Allan, a defendant in the lawsuit. Over the years, the store changed its name and formal ownership — transforming in 2007, for example, to Badger Guns, owned by Mr. Allan, from Badger Outdoors, owned by Mr. Allan’s father and a partner.

On the streets of Milwaukee, Mr. Burton said in testimony from prison, where he is serving 80 years for attempted murder, “everyone knew” Badger was the place to get a gun. In 2011, two years after the sale to Mr. Burton, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives rescinded Badger’s license.


From the NYT article I left a link to earlier.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 08:48 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
From what I understand, there have been problems with that store owner in the past.


Could be but the Feds seems not to have press criminal charges at least that I know of for what is a serous crime of allowing such purchases.

The anti gun groups have been trying to force gun shops and even gun manufactures out of business by using civil torts also.

I see you had added more information on this gun shop and I am surprise that the ATF did not act sooner to shut them down if the information is correct.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 09:03 am
@BillRM,
Maybe the Feds did, maybe that's why the store change it's legal name and ownership, twice that I could see.

Again:
Quote:

At the time of the sale to Mr. Burton, the store was owned by Mr. Allan, a defendant in the lawsuit. Over the years, the store changed its name and formal ownership — transforming in 2007, for example, to Badger Guns, owned by Mr. Allan, from Badger Outdoors, owned by Mr. Allan’s father and a partner.


On the streets of Milwaukee, Mr. Burton said in testimony from prison, where he is serving 80 years for attempted murder, “everyone knew” Badger was the place to get a gun. In 2011, two years after the sale to Mr. Burton, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives rescinded Badger’s license.


In 2012, a brother of Mr. Allan, Mike Allan, reopened the store as Brew City Shooter’s Supply, initially featuring a firing range. The store later received a license to sell weapons. The new owner has said that to avoid problem sales, he will sell guns only to people who take out memberships in the range for $25 and demonstrate knowledge of gun safety.

0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Oct, 2015 09:58 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
stop trying to confuse the tragedy by blaming the victims.

That YOU would try to confuse the tragedy by claiming anyone is 'blaming the victims' is both ironic and disgusting.


Get stuffed
 

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