Universal Health Care Canada Style

Incidentally, many doctors left Canada in the 90s partly due to a Revenue Canada audit on doctors across the country. Many were ruined financially. The tax Nazis only backed off of the witch hunt when a pediatrician drowned himself due to the pressures put upon him. That, people, is pure Conservative mindset at work.

It's the same here, foxfyre. Don't be deluded.

Incidentally, foxfyre, I didn't mean to imply that he had his facts wrong, just that he only chose to cite one side, to support his agenda. Non-disclosure of facts does not mean the facts presented were false.

Not conservatives in this country. Here it's the democrats who want all the tax dollars they can get. <--broad generality of which I just complained.

Well, the same here. If urgent, CT and MRI are done the same moment; nearly every family doctor has ultra sound in his rooms (specialists anyway).

D asks


1. The United States has the best health care in the world as testified by people from all over the world who come here for treatment. Yes some Americans go elsewhere for treatment of this or that, but it is on a miniscule scale compared to those who come to the U.S. I don't want our health care to become mediocre which it almost certainly will become if run by/subsidized by the government.

2. I want health care when I need it. I don't want long waiting lists.

3. I want our pharamceutical companies and labs to continue to do the heavy research that is developing miracle after miracle for suffering people. The profit motive drives this. Once the government takes over and regulates the process, experience tells us that the result will not be better products.

4. I have worked all my adult life and arranged my finances so that I can have choice of doctors. Yes, I also participate in an HMO to save costs, but I can pick and choose what HMO I wish to belong to. I don't want the government having the right to assign what hospitalization plan I must have including what doctor(s) to which I will have access.

5. Just looking at the rampant fraud and waste inherent in Medicade, Medicare, VA, and other government sponsored programs, there is absolutely no confidence the government will do any better handling it all for the rest of us either.

Cav is right. Health Care isn't free whether the people buy it privately or whether the government takes your earnings in taxes and provides it for you. I prefer to buy my own private insurance and wish to retain that ability, especially when I haven't seen anything the government does yet that is cheaper than when it is done by the private sector.

(U.S. government caps on Medicare and Medicaid coverages have driven many, maybe most, excellent specialists out of the program here leaving only average doctors to treat the poor and the elderly. And we don't even need to discuss the level of care provided by the average V.A. hospital.)

Kerry purports his health plan as fixing the current problem. Have you ever seen any government program of that nature that has become smaller over time? They all grow and expand as benefits are added on and more stuff is covered.

This is just for starters and I have to get to work now. Will check back in later in the day.

For those who have health insurance, the U.S. has a wonderful system. For those who don't--and there are millions of working Americans in this category--it's a disaster.

Just one parting comment...and then I do have to go but will answer whatever later:

How many Americans without health insurance are young, healthy adults who prefer to use their money for an extra car or a bigger apartment or a trip to Vegas than buy a modest health insurance policy with a deductible that makes it affordable?

The poor in this country do have insurance through Medicade. The rest without insurance I think might mostly be uninsured by choice more than by necessity.

Geesh Foxfyre,

This post is a might bit out of touch with anything approaching reality.

Do you have any idea how much "modest" health insurance costs?
What do you consider affordable?

Do you really think that there are any significant number of Americans who can afford health insurance and choose not to? Would you make that choice?

I recently spent one year without health insurance. Let me tell you it was not at all by choice.

I was unemployed for a year and a half (due to a bad business decision during the recession). During this time I exhausted my retirement savings and built up quite a bit of debt trying to figure out how to keep my family fed. It soon became clear that health insurance for me was simply not an option (fortunately my kids were covered by socialized health care).

During this time I did not buy a bigger car or take any vacation.

During this time I met many people -- talented unemployed professionals who made similar decisions. I know several who gave up houses and spent retirement accounts because they were unemployed.

People who give up health insurance do so very reluctantly. Losing this security is painful and it is only done as a last resort. I can tell you this from experience.

I also know people who are working hard in low skilled hourly jobs without insurance who simply can't afford the thousands of dollars health care costs. They are spending their money on such luxuries food, rent and heat.

If you are ever in need, I am sure the first thing you will do is run out, cancel your insurance and buy a new car.

But I don't know anyone else who has done that.

The fact that Foxfyre can't spell "Medicaid" correctly suggests he or she hasn't exactly been keeping up to date on the issue. Just a hunch. Because, as ebrown_p points out, it costs a lot more than a trip to Vegas to pay for your own health insurance.

Unless you plan to buy a casino down there...

Literally on the way out the door here, I am only speaking in generalities re those who choose not to buy health insurance. I do understand there are people who fall on hard times. We were without insurance for awhile during the waiting period when my husband changed jobs once and of course that was the time he blew up the furnace trying to light it. (He's fine now but it was expensive.)

My own kids went insurance-less for awhile when they graduated college and were no longer eligible for their college health coverage, and this was by choice rather than by necessity. (They got nagged by Mom and Dad about it too.) I was also in a group setting recently, a number of the younger crowd were foregoing health insurance in favor of other things, not so much that they couldn't afford it.

There are group plans out there now that 4really aren't so expensive for the young and healthy and for most aren't out of reach for most but the truly working poor.

I am not opposed to tweaking the system--allowing informal group plans for all the 'strays' for instance--but do think universal health care is not the way to go.

Foxfyre,

I get the feeling that your social circle is not at all representative of America. I assure you that most of the 43 million of uninsured are not in the same class as your children.

It is very easy for those who are comfortably wealthy and have all they need to ignore, or even to look down on, the needs of the rest of America.

Let me tell you, health care is a real problem for many Americans. A large number of people simply can not afford health insurance and are upset by this.

Actually Canada is ******* up its health care ststem all except maybe Quebec, maybe we should be modeling after Quebec (Probably why and many other reasons why le Block Quebecois and their supporters want to separate......Vive Quebec!!! vote oui not non at the next referendum....all you canadians know what i mean.




-Hans

Well, the issue of seperation has nothing to do with health care, but I know what you mean. Here's the problem, try selling anything remotely 'French' to the States.

Hans, the issue of Quebec sounds like it should be on another thread. I would be interested in hearing this debated.

My sister-in-law is from Quebec and is very much against separation, but that is all I know of the issue. Want to start a new thread?

I'm with everything Cav said, and would also like to add that my grandmother lived to reach 97 years old. Both my grandfathers lived until they were 91.
My other grandmother died giving birth many many moons ago. All my grandparents were born and raised in Canada :-D

I have the same doctor my 97 year old grandmother had and I have no problem getting in to see him.

How much does a 6 pack of Coke cost in Canada?
1 gallon of milk?
a gallon of gasoline (84 octane)?

I'm sure those stats are relevent to this thread. Not sure how exactly. Let me guess: Canadians pay more for their Coke because they have universal health care? And this means it's a bad idea?

Just pointing out the fact that it's not all roses in Canada as many would try to make it appear. The taxes in Canada are outrageous.

Yes, but we have health care and we do get some of it back. I get 4 tax rebate checks a year.