The existance of a pyramid, in and of itself, doesn't mean much: consider how small children easily build step-pyramid forms with their blocks.
Perhaps I shouldn't included the pyramids, it only distracted from the point that I have read in more than one place, that this was so.
A pyramid is so basic a structure that it's hardly surprising it would have been developed by more than one civilization independently. Besides, the Mesoamerivan structures aren't at all like the Egyptian variety. Same shape, is all. The Egyptian pyramids were elaborate tombs; the Mayan variety were places of worship and human sacrifice. I have clambered to the top of the big one at Chichen Itza and looked across the excavated ruins of the entire village. You couldn't do that at Giza.
I had to go an mention the d**n pyramids......
That's all he sees now.
booman2 wrote:I had to go an mention the d**n pyramids......
Yeah, why did ya go & do that? You know how just the mention of pyramids does strange things to people ...
I met a pyramid onc't . . . scheming bastard . . .
booman2 wrote:
Paaskynen,
....Socrates was given HEMLOCK, not wedlock. Although I'm sure wedlock has taken many lives throughout history.
....May I ask, what is the sourse of your name?
I know about the hemlock, I was quoting an article like it says at the beginning of the piece (in blue).
My name is Finnish and it means swallow (except that I use it on-line without the dot on the A's).
Well it's about damned time . . . i'm glad somebody got the joke . . .
And then there's always Amway...You can't blame that on the Egyptians
(Don't look at me, Setana started it.)
Ah, now the time is ripe . . . take it away, Steve . . .
King Tut, King Tut
Now when he was a young man,
He never thought he'd see
People stand in line to see the boy king.
King Tut--How'd you get so funky?
Funky Tut--Did you do the monkey?
Born in Arizona,
Moved to Babylonia--King Tut.
King Tut--Now, if I'd known
They'd line up just to see you,
I'd trade in all my money
And bought me a museum--King Tut.
Buried with a donkey--Funky Tut.
He's my favorite honkey!
Born in Arizona,
Moved to Babylonia--King Tut.
Dancin' by the Nile--Disco Tut.
The ladies love his style,--Waltzing Tut.
Rockin' for a mile--Rockin' Tut.
He ate a crocodile.
He gave his life for tourism.
Golden idol!
He's an Egyptian
They're sellin' you.
Now, when I die,
Don't think I'm a nut,
don't want no fancy funeral,
Just one like ole King Tut--King Tut.
He coulda won a Grammy,
Buried in his Jammies,
Born in Arizona, moved to Babylonia,
He was born in Arizona, lived in a condo made of stone-a,
King Tut!
Quote: ....Before the vikings there were the Africans. There are pyramids in South America also. Of course much has been buried and obscured about the rich, and highly developed civilizations of Africa.
What are you attempting to present here? There's no DNA /STR data of which Im aware that connects any populations of living Inca, Monte Alban, MEsoAmericans or Amerinds or Innuit or Aleutian Island with any populations in Africa. If there is data on this , Id love to see it and Ill gladly begin anew my weekend inquiries into Paleo American cultures
Yuck! .....I feel like I just got a homework asignment. I'll have to make a trip to the library for Titles, but it's just as well. I should have sourcenames for stuff like this anyway.
Farmerman,
....How silly of me, talking library while sittng in front of a computor. These should getyou started:
...."Before the Mayflower"-Lerone Jr. Bennett
...."Africa And The Discovery Of America"-Leo Werner
...."They Came Before Columbus"-Ivon Von Sertima
....You can go to Amazon, and read synopsis' on these books, and other's on the suject.
....(I know, you thought I was bluffin' didn't you?
)
I think you miss FM's point, Boo . . . had there been significant settlement in the "new" world by Africans, there would be genetic evidence--but there is none. Were the Africans indeed visiting the western hemisphere, it must have been roughly equivalent to Viking visits--nothing permanent, and nothing significant.
Check the synopsis' of the books
Thanks for those posts Walter. Ill have to try to find an AAFS article re genetic STR markers in Samerican populations from a stat study done in 2001 or 2 . It was about those little pieces of genetic junk that affix themselves in a genome through millenia of incorporating small but key mutations within a population. These mutations get passed on in the mDNA as populations mix and it can be a powerful tool to demonstrate the mobility of a society or two.
Im a popultion dynamics nut and have only heard the "African visitation" hypothesis in the more popular written stuff. I just bought a new pub about mineral provinces in the light of Continental Drift. That thing cost me 350 clams and my book budget is tapped out for a month or more. So Ill have to search the library and read .
Howevr booman, I caution you to keep a skeptical eye on just about anythging re population theories. Like those Olmec "rollerheads" , have more in common withother mesoamerican artifacts than they do with African. Similarity of artifacts can often be misinterpreted because the author wants to see something thats not really there.
Maybe Im leaning on genetics too much but its been a powerful tool to show how our planet was populatedand how populations mixed.
Farmerman,
....First of all, I see you thank Walter for posting the title.
but that's okay, as long as you got them. Perhaps my post didn't show up on your screen.
....And now; If you'll remember, my original statement was simply, "before the Vikings there were the Africans" Apparently, this doesn't sit too well with you. You've been traveling on the world's largest river* every since. if you read the synopsis' of these books, It might help you to belive it, after you learn that two of these authors are caucasion. :wink:
.......*I won't reveal the continent this river ("de" Nile) is on I don't want To upset you.
How you doin' Ol' Chap? I remember you from two years ago, when I was just Booman.
Booman, yes I thanked Walter because he posted the articles of which you referred. Im a "data" guy, and the evidence for Africans in the New World is not robust enough IMHO to be considered a slam dunk. I know that its been discussed around the campfires.
The vikings left unquestionable evidence in the form of an entire settlement built in Viking style. They also left the sagas . Forensically they are in safe waters.
Now, as far as an African adventure, why does it make any difference as to what race the authors are ?
Can we point to ant clearly African style ARTIFACTS or cultural evidence that is not built of the same cloth that van Deniken used to create his ripping yarns of alien runways at Cuzco.
Im not dead set against any hypothesis turned theory if <IF, there is a dram of evidence worth consideration. Since I have not read but some of the sections that Walter posted,Im not easily stirred by stylistic comparisons. Remember the Indo European symbol the swastika? how many civilizations separated by vast geography share this symbol? its an interesting bit of speculation.
Im not convinced that Olmec heads are African influenced. If this were the case why didnt they have the wheel? African civilizations had the wheel before Meso Americans. In fact , I believe that it was after Columbus that the wheel , as a conveyance, was used
To the Maya, a wheel was a calendar made of stone..
I brought up the DNA evidence because DNA is busting some really big evolution and populational debates right in the chops.
We know that "out of Africa" occured in 2 major waves.and one minor for another species or two.
We know the first wave headed east and around to China. We know the second went east and North, then west.
Monte Verde site has shown some artifacts that are pre clovis but have a typical paleo shape, with deep fluted points and hand axes. Africans were already into bronze by the time they speculate that there was African contact. But, they apparently left no garbage or anything.
Ill be away for a day or more and I promise to check in because if you have any data or evidence from the titles youve posted, Im eager to learn , I know that when we write on these boards , becauese its so declarative and we arent talking over a back fence, the writing sounds slightly offensive. I dont mean to sound that way, I truly am interested and Im not trying to be a "self proclaimed expert" on this stuff. Its just a hobby and I do wish to learn more. However, discount my brusque astyle and lets prepare to discuss honest to goodness, rigorously tested data. Or at least data that has some buzz built about it in scholarly work. I wish I had time to send acquiunk a PM but I gotta catch a plane to Tennessee
