Was communism really that bad??

You can say the same about bush he thinks the only proper government is democracy, but he is not only forcing it down to his own people but also is making other countries follow suit. "Praise capitalism and all its benefits"...thats bull. Even a well organized dictatorship can work more effectively and beneficially to the people. Cuba is not on the brink of changing and maybe if the americans opened up their minds a bit the cubans can improve their economy through trade. the americans are out to shape the world in their image! So don't through a cold shoulder to communism when capitalism has just as many faults.



-Hans

I am against the Cuban embargo.

It affacts the people. and is counterproductive. It gives Castro the perfect excuse to continue with his policies.

---

Hans, I understand your original question is not about Capitalism, but about Communism.

Savage Capitalism is terrible and unhuman.
Communism is just not the answer to it.

Hans, have you lived in communism?

Don't really remember anything (was born in east germany (berlin) in 1984).




-Hans

well, if you were to live in communism, you would know that you can't compare it with capitalism. Ot, to say it better, you can't compare "holes" and faults in capitalism with those of communism.
Can't say for others, but dagmaraka and myself both lived in communism and in capitalism.

And I lived in BY FAR most free and most developed communistic country of all times, and I would still always choose capitalism with all its faults.
If I would have to choose best kind of society I would say it's Scandinavian type of socialism though.

Canada as well is kind of socialist.



-Hans

Signing off for a bit i'll be on later.



-Hans

Only in the "is not socialist at all" way right?

damn, I wanted to say that.....

No it is it has free heath care and tones of other social programs, unless you live in the country you can't really tell(I moved here about 15 years ago)

fbaezer, thank you, for your long post above.

<nods>

I agree with MOU (and with nimh).

Yugoslavia was a country with seemingly reasonable freedoms, who tried to put some imagination into the construction of Socialism.
In the seventies, it had the same product per capita as Mexico, but apparently there was much less poverty and misery.
In 1979 I travelled to Bulgaria and, to my astonishment, I found out that American propaganda was closer to the truth than the propaganda of the Soviet bloc. It was so oppressive, that after a few days, my wife and I decided to take the first plane anywhere. Arriving at Zagreb was like breathing oxygen for the first time.
But Yugoslavia imploded. Communism didn't work there, either, perhaps for different reasons.
Now, after the war, only Slovenia has a better standard of living than Mexico, and Croatia is about at the same level. The rest of the former Yugoslavia lags far behind.

BTW, Canada is not socialist at all. Only their brand of market Capitalism is not as savage as in the US.

Of, so it's a country with free healthcare and tons of social programs.

This does not constitute socialism.



IMO knowing what the word means would be a more important insight.

;-)

Are you new or something do you want me to go in depth explanation, i just gave you a few samples i'll give you the whole deal if you want me to. social programs and health care are attributes of a socialist government perhaps it is you who needs to update your knowledge on these things! We along with finland sweden are probably the most socialist governments in the world if you doubt me don't tell me ask your local governor, MP or whatever your damn country has in local ridings!!!





-Hans

We don't have ridings . . . with our politicians, if they were facing backward, one could not tell one horse's ass from the other . . .

Hans, your samples are wrong. If anyone needs to read up, it's not Craven. Canada, Finland, Sweden are at best social democracies (I would still not place Canada into the same bag with Scandinavian countries), but not socialist countries.
repeat: universal healthcare and social programs do not equal socialism. liberal democracies, that are all based on capitalist economy, have a vast array of welfare systems. canada's is more distributive, but it still does not make it a socialist country. before you tell someone off, get your facts straight.

Health care and socail programs were first ever introduced in Germany, in 1884, by the Prussian Prime Minister and Chancellor of the German Reich, Otto von Bismarck.

Bismarck was famous - besides others - for his Anti-Socialist Laws of 1878, which suppressed organisations that represented the working classes. (He feared Marxism and the Social Democrats threatening his leadership.)

Feel free to attempt an in-depth explanation.



Go for it.



Leaders and followers are "attributes of a socialist government".... and other governments that are not socialist.

Similarly social programs and health care can exist in a governmental system that does not even resemble socialism.

I'm quite interested in you "updating my knowledge" but do consider that the logical premise of your claim is such that finding a similarity is being used to assert an equitable state.

This is a logical flaw, as you can find similarities between capitalist states and socialist ones, which is precisely what you dis, and subsequently try to assert a falsehood, which is also preciselty what you did.

Canada has larger government than some countries, it is also very much a capitalist, and no socialist, state.




Again, only through equivocation with the use of "socialist".

For example, Cuba and North Korea are "more socialist".



My local govenor is not very bright, and is not an authority on government.

Furthermore, finding people who will agree with you is not indicative of your premise being correct and is only indicative of a shared position.

Since humans can share false positions this does not preclude falsehood in your statement.

Canada is not a socialist country. Even some people who will say so rhetorically to denigrate Canada's "leftness" would likely admit their use of hyperbole.

Canada, at least as long as I've lived here which would be...all my life, has generally been described as a "social democracy". What the hell that means, I have no clue, but I know it isn't Socialism.