17
   

Sanders Being Harassed by blacklivesmatter#

 
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:18 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I hate to say a I have been admirer of for years, even during the Bush years. I am afraid you have let yourself get carried away.

The people who are involved in blacklivesmatter are not going to take money to go after a candidate. They really care about this issue. It is possible they got carried away and ruined their cause on their own.


The fact is, they are disrupting appearances by Bernie Sanders while leaving Hillary Clinton alone. They clearly intend Clinton to benefit from this. And, this is unfair, Bernie Sanders has a significantly better civil rights record than Clinton does.

Whether they or paid or not to do this is irrelevant. If this were really about Black lives mattering (rather than about getting Hillary elected) than they would be consistent about their disruptive protests.


Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:24 am
@revelette2,
Revelette, unless you have inside information about these two people, I think it would be prudent to wait for the facts before saying for certain what happened. The Washington branch of BLM is split with half saying they knew nothing about this disruption- and others are saying 2 random people decided to wreck the event and claim they were with BLM. No movement or cause, however pure the original intent is impervious to stunts and infiltration by unpure people. It is widely known Soros funds Clinton and BLM. A connection hasn't been proven but it is being investigated.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:25 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

revelette2 wrote:

I hate to say a I have been admirer of for years, even during the Bush years. I am afraid you have let yourself get carried away.

The people who are involved in blacklivesmatter are not going to take money to go after a candidate. They really care about this issue. It is possible they got carried away and ruined their cause on their own.


The fact is, they are disrupting appearances by Bernie Sanders while leaving Hillary Clinton alone. They clearly intend Clinton to benefit from this. And, this is unfair, Bernie Sanders has a significantly better civil rights record than Clinton does.

Whether they or paid or not to do this is irrelevant. If this were really about Black lives mattering (rather than about getting Hillary elected) than they would be consistent about their disruptive protests.
(edit) ...and there's also the possibility that BLM is splintering, like Lash pointed out.





That's assuming there's sharp contemplation and strategy behind these disruptions. It may be something less nefarious like Blacklivesmatters leaders may just be trying to use the momentum of Sanders' campaign to gain visibility.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:26 am
@Lash,
...& what Max said. Why just Sanders?
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:31 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

...& what Max said. Why just Sanders?

Maybe a couple of glory seeking BLMs are trying to hog Sanders' momentum. Maybe.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:31 am
@Lash,
I will have to look it up but early when he first started to rise and he asked about blacklivematter. His reply was in the nature of well all lives matter. Perhaps they thought he skirted the issue. (I am not sure of the exact words or the rest of his answer, I just remember it something like that)

In any case I agree with Snood, it was a disgusting display and it probably hurt their cause more than anything any opponents could have done.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:46 am
Here is one older article talking about what I was attempting to very briefly It was O'Malley who said all lives matters.


Bernie Sanders’ big test: Can he learn from his Netroots Nation conflict with Black Lives Matter activists?

Monday, Jul 20, 2015 12:11 PM CDT

Quote:
Sen. Bernie Sanders is who he is: a 73-year-old socialist inured to being told he’s wrong, politically, who’s developed an ironclad hold on the conviction that he’s right. So it’s not surprising that he’s resisting learning lessons from his early campaign stumbles at winning support from African Americans and Latinos.



If you’re a Sanders fan, part of what you like about him is that he sticks to his guns. In fact, Sanders fans are a lot like him: used to being on the political margins, they’ve learned to take refuge in the knowledge of their righteousness, which eases the sting of being perpetually in the political minority.

Unfortunately, the mutually reinforcing self-righteousness of Sanders and his supporters is a liability for his promising presidential campaign. Sanders has a genuine problem with the Democratic Party’s African American and Latino base, and no amount of insisting that class supersedes race will change that. I wrote about it last month, and got a ton of pushback from Sanders backers. Then came the conflict at Netroots Nation on Saturday, where Sanders was heckled by Black Lives Matter protesters.

It could have been worse: the irascible Sanders endured it without erupting, or walking out. But he showed his frustration with a generation of activists who want him to address the specific role of structural racism in the oppression of African Americans – in everything from family wealth to death at the hands of police. “Black lives, of course, matter,” an exasperated Sanders said Saturday. “But I’ve spent 50 years of my life fighting for civil rights. If you don’t want me to be here, that’s okay.”

That didn’t help.

Sanders is understandably irritated that 50 years of work on civil rights – going back to attending the March on Washington with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., fighting segregation with CORE in Chicago, endorsing Rev. Jesse Jackson’s presidential run in 1988 – don’t seem to count, especially with people who were born a generation after those events. Asked Saturday what he’d done for African Americans more recently, he cited voting for Obamacare. [Update: he also talked about making sure the program included funding for community health centers in low-income neighborhoods, which I hadn’t seen when I wrote this piece. That makes it a less tone-deaf response, though it still didn’t satisfy the protesters.]

It’s true that President Obama himself has pointed to the importance of the Affordable Care Act to African Americans, since lower incomes mean they’re disproportionately helped by the program. But Obama has also been criticized for such arguments, by an African American party base that’s fed up with “race-neutral” policies that never adequately address the problems of black poverty and disadvantage. A white politician surely can’t get away with that answer; even community health centers benefit every race and aren’t specifically geared to the needs of black communities.

“Say her name,” the protesters chanted. They were talking about Sandra Bland, an educated Chicago woman with no criminal record who’d worked on police abuse issues, and somehow wound up dead in a Texas jail cell in what police called suicide. Her family and friends dispute that story, and question her arrest in the first place. The cops say she talked back to them and kicked an officer; video footage of her initial stop shows she was thrown to the ground, but doesn’t show what preceded it.

“Black people are dying in this country because we have a criminal justice system which is out of control, a system in which over 50 percent of young African-American kids are unemployed,” Sanders responded, according to local news reports. “It is estimated that a black baby born today has a one in four chance of ending up in the criminal justice system.”

But he still wouldn’t say Sandra Bland’s name.

If you like Bernie Sanders, this is what you like about him. He doesn’t pander. On the other hand, it really isn’t pandering to learn and say the name of Sandra Bland. On MSNBC’s “Up with Steve” on Sunday, I suggested Sanders needed better staff support, to help him anticipate questions and conflicts like this, but that’s a cop out.

In fact, Sanders brags about his lack of staffing. “Ask me who my campaign finance director is,” he said to a reporter last week. “We don’t have one. Ask me who my pollster is. We don’t have one.” He even boasted of writing his campaign’s direct mail himself.

Sanders’ Netroots Nation confrontation took over Twitter on Saturday night. But for the most part, instead of acknowledging that the conflict illustrated a real problem, his online supporters attacked Sanders’ critics by insisting they didn’t understand the real issues driving black poverty and disadvantage, which are merely economic, they contend.

This is getting old. After my last Sanders article, Jacobin ran a piece showing that black voters overwhelmingly support Sanders’ political priorities. But this line of reasoning runs the risk of suggesting black voters don’t really know what’s good for them – because if they did, they’d be backing Sanders.

I should note that Martin O’Malley, too, was heckled at Netroots Nation, and that he initially came off worse than Sanders, when he told the crowd, “Black lives matter. White lives matter. All lives matter.” That seemingly self-evident sentiment has been used by some on the right to erase the specific claim that black lives matter. O’Malley showed a lack of familiarity with this increasingly important, and bitter debate.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:50 am
Yes revellette - if you scan the first few pages of the Bernie's In and When Will Hillary Clinton... threads, you'll see where people hashed through the fact that O'malley and Sanders sort of flubbed that response.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:56 am
@snood,
You may be right Snood, but these people have now started a #bowdownbernie twitter hashtag...

revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 07:58 am
@maxdancona,
Sanders supports haven't been too silent, at least online and articles, they are quite vehement on the whole thing of supporting Sanders.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 08:01 am
@snood,
This "flubbed the response" claim is a little disingenuous given the fact that Hillary didn't even show up for this important progressive event. Hillary has "flubbed" this issue earlier, including saying (rather insensitively) "All lives matter" at a historically Black church.

There is no legitimate reason for Black Lives Matter protesters to target Sanders while giving Clinton a free pass, unless their real goal is to get Clinton elected.

snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 08:05 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This "flubbed the response" claim is a little disingenuous given the fact that Hillary didn't even show up for this important progressive event. Hillary has "flubbed" this issue earlier, including saying (rather insensitively) "All lives matter" at a historically Black church.

There is no legitimate reason for Black Lives Matter protesters to target Sanders while giving Clinton a free pass, unless their real goal is to get Clinton elected.




Yeah well, I think both things can be true - they flubbed the response and Hillary flubbed by not being there. Time will tell what's up with the BLM disruptions of Sanders events. If there are any thoughtful people who care about their movement having long term impact, they can't be pleased with how these disruptions are being read in the public eye.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 08:05 am
@revelette2,
I don't get your point Revelette. There is nothing wrong with supporting your candidate publicly. If you support a candidate you should do so honestly. Tell me who you are supporting and why and give me all of the reasons that your candidate is better than the others. Honesty.

There is something very wrong with pretending to be promoting a civil rights issue as an underhanded way of disrupting a political campaign.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 08:54 am
@maxdancona,
I didn't say there is anything wrong with supporting you candidate. There just seems an extra not vehenment defense thrown in with a lot of Hillary bashing. JMO

Anyway, I don't really support anyone too much this time, will vote for anyone who ends up being on the democrat ticket because I support the democrat platform and agendas and I am worried about who next will be on supreme court.

Unlike others I don't think Sander's socialism is too much against him and if he should win, I would be glad he beat Hillary as I happen to think he is a good candidate. I like Biden better for his stance on gun violence and foreign issues but I don't he or other anyone else other Hillary has a chance to get on the democratic ticket for the general election.

As for the BLM issue, they are real and those issues do matter it is not a matter of what words they use exactly but more sentiment behind it. If Sanders could just get across that he believes some attention needs to be paid to the disparity in the minority population separate and apart from poor of the nation in general, then I think he could easily win them over. Instead he gets impatient and kind of dismissive.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 09:05 am
@revelette2,
He's been doing a lot better with that ever since that first BLM disruption. this latest one - I would've walked out, too.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 10:45 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
If Sanders could just get across that he believes some attention needs to be paid to the disparity in the minority population separate and apart from poor of the nation in general, then I think he could easily win them over.


He is doing exactly that. Let's see if it works.

Quote:
Instead he gets impatient and kind of dismissive.


Bullshit. He is addressing the issue in as supportive a way as possible. And he has done that consistently ever since the first ambush.

The issue here isn't Bernie, there is nothing he could possibly do to be more supportive of the issue.

The issue is that Hillary supporters are disrupting Bernie rallies while leaving Hillary rallies alone. This is an underhanded way to say you are supporting an issue, when really what you are doing is attacking one candidate to help another.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 11:24 am
@maxdancona,

Rev:
Quote:
Instead he gets impatient and kind of dismissive.


Max:
Quote:
Bullshit. He is addressing the issue in as supportive a way as possible. And he has done that consistently ever since the first ambush.


From the Salon article I cut and pasted in a previous post with link:
Quote:
It could have been worse: the irascible Sanders endured it without erupting, or walking out. But he showed his frustration with a generation of activists who want him to address the specific role of structural racism in the oppression of African Americans – in everything from family wealth to death at the hands of police. “Black lives, of course, matter,” an exasperated Sanders said Saturday. “But I’ve spent 50 years of my life fighting for civil rights. If you don’t want me to be here, that’s okay.”



revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 11:28 am
@snood,
Me too, I was just talking of the one I already referenced in July.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 11:31 am
@revelette2,
As I said, Bernie has addressed the issue in as supportive a way possible ever since the first ambush. Your quote recounts the first ambush. And, I will point out again... Hillary didn't even show up for this first event.

Sanders has a far better record on civil rights than Hillary does. Hillary actually said the words "all lives matter" in a church rally to address the "black lives matter" issue. This angered some participants who see the phrase "all lives matter" as a slap in the face since it discounts the fact that it is Black people who are bearing the brunt of police violence.

Today, Bernie held a rally specifically to deal with racial justice.

There is no legitimate reason to target Bernie while ignoring Hillary. This is a sleazy way to help Hillary who, in fact, has a worse record on the issue.

People who really believe in the cause of Black Lives Matter will support their cause consistently. The people who are disrupting and unfairly attacking the one candidate who most supports their cause is not productive nor admirable.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Sun 9 Aug, 2015 11:33 am
African-Americans For Bernie Sanders - Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/AfricanAmericansForBernie/posts/586968294779502?comment_id=586975064778825¬if_t=like

scroll down to "What are everyone's thoughts about what happened in Seattle?" check out the comments ...here are just a few...

Christina Shanteé That they're ridiculous and clearly have done no research on Bernie. But I'm trying to see the silver lining in hoping that somehow, because of this more attention will be given to Bernie by the minority community. Bernie should outright say, "Why would you come to my rally and interrupt me when I've been fighting for you all YOUR life."

#BerniesCampaignMatters

Steve Isidor These two women ARE idiots. They should protest people who have never done or said anything in favor of black people. #Blacklivesmatter should back Sanders if they would like to see a change in America. #Sanders2016

Joe Starosielec I'm not here give any POC permission to do something or not. It was their decision to protest Sanders. It's just obvious that they don't understand economics or Sanders' role in improving black lives. They need to do some research and find the real enemy.

Derrick Kardos idiots. and they need to be stopped before they succeed in sabotaging bernie's campaign.

Mark Shea Where's the outrage at Trump & the Republicans? The real problem.

Inas El-Sabban #BLM protesters are most definitely doing themselves and the movement a huge disservice by targeting the wrong candidate, as #Bernie is #BLM's and African Americans' #1 advocate. As per my post today, the #BLM folks should wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to their approach regarding issues that are of importance to them and their true blue allies (namely, Bernie Sanders and his supporters.) 🌝

Paula S. Scott Stupid. They don't represent me.
 

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