Affirmative action

OOoooh, that's good....

"I won't engage you in this discussion, because you aren't capable of appreciating my opinion."


...I'll have to remember that one...

God, diddie, that article was powerful. it went right to the heart of the pain I've been going through every time I look at colin and Condi lately.

I think Powell should be given more credit for staying. It's easy to walk out; granted, it makes a strong statement, but it takes so much more courage to stay and do what you can under the most adverse conditions. Think what it would have been like without him.

Colin Powell doesn't only hear one note in the symphony. To try to define him by his personal beliefs in AA alone, does him, and all blacks a disservice, IMO. They are more than black. They are men, women, families, employees, and have a multitude of issues to be concerned with. Powell knows he can effect a multitude of policies from where he is right now. He knows he holds a powerful position in the world; not for a black man, but for any man.

I watched that speech. It was a powerful moment in GOP politics. Most of the crowd didn't share his view, but his words were heard and welcomed. He is a respected member of the GOP.

Breslin is a bigot, with his broad sweep against 'rednecks'. Talk like that does nothing but divide. His words reveal that he is no better than those he attempts to discredit.

Regardless his stand on AA, Powell is a Giant Among Men. He is one of the honest, honorable few. Its a pitty he's too wise to consider being President. Breslin is a boob. Its a pity he makes more money than Powell does. But then, Breslin's white, isn't he?



timber

Interesting. I'd give alot to know the real psychology that makes whites want him to stay, but blacks on this forum give more credence to the honor Powell could gain by walking out. I wonder how openminded we are to examining that, and how much respect could be given to opposing viewpoints. without slinging accusations of demagoguery and bigotry. I disagree, Lash. I thought the article was powerful, and spoke alot of truth.

Snood, are you saying you think Powell has been co-opted by "The White Man's Values", or implying that his "Acceptance" by whites diminishes him in the mind of blacks?



timber

Snood
More than once I had questioned how Powell could remain in an administration that's views seem to be counter to his beliefs. In addition he seemed to have been shunted aside and the only reason that he was a member was because of his status in the eyes of the American people. Well, I am glad he did not let his ego get the best of him. IMO he is the only sobering member of the Bush cabinets and his counsel has Bush from the preemptive strike that would have surely happened had he not been there. I think the American people both Black and White and all the shades in between owe he a debt of gratitude.

How enlightening that the two who choose to defend Powell by attacking Jimmy Breslin did so ad hominem and nearly in stereo; i.e. "Breslin is a bigot", "Breslin is a boob".

Reveals much about the mindset, which I believe is the topic of another thread in here somewhere...

I think everyone's saying that Powell is a good man. Selfishly, because I think he is a good man, I want him to stay in a position of power. I agree that stepping down would be powerful, itself, and as Breslin says, could save his soul. I just don't know if more would be accomplished if he stayed and fought the good fight or if he left. What would he do if he left? What would be accomplished aside from the message and his soul?

Those are rhetorical questions asked because I truly don't know the answers, not a set-up. Is the benefit to his soul worth the loss of a good man in power? Or is it that he has no actual power?

I was out of line, I admit. I just have to say as an official, tractor-owning, beer-gutted, levi-wearing, huntin', fishin' cardplayin' redneck, I felt personally outraged by Breslin's insensitive remark. He should be made to apologize publicly!

To show my sincerity, I apologize to boobs and biggots.



timber

That's why I liked that article, Timberland - it didn't "assume" or "imply" its main message; I thought it very clearly stated that (in the author's opinion) Powell would send a much needed message by leaving this administration. And I think it was very clear about why. I feel strong agreement. Period.

What would be accomplished aside from the message and his soul?


What would it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and lose his soul?

I think the article and some people are missing another very important message: that Powell is able to speak his mind when at odds with the administration, and is still a welcome part of that administration.

Snood, I agree it would be a strong message. I'm curious, though, whether more good would come from him staying and doing what he can, or giving this message. What practical offshoots of the message would there be? Would voters be swayed? Would it decide the next election? Would he switch parties and run against Bush for President? Or would it be a one-time message, soul-saving but ultimately futile?

Edit: Missed your post, snood.

TW, something that's come up often, and that the article mentions, is that Colin is a VOICE in the administration, but not a voice that seems to be heeded, much.

Since none of us are psychic, or flys on the oval office walls, alot of this is individual perception - as to what is the nature of Powell's relationship to this administration.

Personally, I think he probably has to bite his tongue so much, he's gonna get canker sores.

A very little talked about preface to JC Watt's departure was his feeling repeatedly slighted by the leadership in the GOP.

Please provide us with a source for this information. I hadn't heard this. Thanks.

Snood, an interesting question, but I think there are too few people on theis thread to give even hint at a pattern of thinking along racial lines. One thought did cross my mind--that Powell is a black man of unquestioned integrity and honor; a fine representative of blacks in America. Do you think that blacks might want him to step down before he can be humiliated or diminished in the minds of Americans, especially blacks? It would present a strong message while, at the same time, preserving his reputation.

Here's an example of why I think it is so important that he stay. I imagine most of us have lived long enough to have experienced a few moments when we were in a position where we had to disagree with the policy of those around us, even those who had power over us. At times like that it is easy to walk out, saying that you don't want to be a part of something with which you disagree, yet you choose to stay because you realize that your voice might be the only one which could possibly make a difference. By deciding to stay, you place yourself in a position of vulnerability, knowing that you might be humiliated or even fired. It comes down to a moral decision--take a risk at your own expense or leave with you name intact and with the admiration of your friends and coworkers.

That is why I think Powell chose to stay and I admire him for his decision. As others have said, we would probably already be at war with Iraq if not for Powell.

Breslin earned my 'bigot' comment by his use of the slur "redneck'. When you attempt to cram a large, diverse group of human beings beneath the umbrella of a slur, you are a bigot.

As for the rest of the article, I can see what he is saying, and he certainly has a right to say it.

I also think there are points to it, because Powell, unlike Rice, is in complete disagreement with the administration's view on AA.

I imagine it is quite a chore for him to labor under some of his constraints. But, he has affected foreign policy in a serious and good manner. It was his meeting with the Pres, which solidified Bush's approach to the UN, and has stayed the hand of war, so far. I think this has been the best course, and I value Powell. (Although, he was also instrumental in convincing Bush I to stop short of Baghdad in the first place.

Nobody's perfect.

I think this country, and this Pres. need Colin Powell.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2933-2003Jan2.html

Looks like Watts both felt like and was slighted by the Republican leadership, IMHO!