Affirmative action

Timber

Agreed and that is why I called another form of social welfare

A harsh, yet true statement from timber. The Social Welfare system, and general attitude passed down through many black families that they are somehow more oppressed than the other successful immigrants in this country is the single most destructive combination affecting blacks' assimilation.

Asians proved this.

I reject that Asians are physiologically superior. I assert that they have strong family units, and see education as a primary goal in life. Its a culture thing. IMO.

Do you value her opinion so highly in other matters, or only when she agrees with you?

Funny, I have not heard that one. Sounds like a country song. :wink:

Lash suggests we should all be treated equally and points out that the Constitution agrees with her on that point, and you complain that she's singing the blues. I read no complaint into her words, merely the conviction that equal treatment under the law is right and any policy that does otherwise, no matter how noble the intent, is wrong.

ADMISSIONS CRITERIA
At the University of Michigan, minority undergraduate applicants to the College of Literature, Science and the Arts receive a 20-point bonus on the basis of race out of a 150-point system, which takes into consideration other criteria, including academics. Scholarship athletes, for example, get 20 points. Race is covered in a category called "other factors." The point system includes:


Geography
10 points - Michigan resident
6 points - Underrepresented Michigan county
2 points - Underrepresented state

Alumni
4 points - "Legacy" (parents, step-parents)
1 point - Other (grandparents, siblings, spouses)

Essay
1 point - Outstanding essay (since 1999, 3 points)

Personal achievement
1 point - State
3 points - Regional
5 points - National

Leadership and service
1 point - State
3 points - Regional
5 points - National

Miscellaneous
20 points - Socio-economic disadvantage
20 points - Underrepresented racial-ethnic minority identification or education
5 points - Men in nursing
20 points - Scholarship athlete
20 points - Provost's discretion

So a poor, inadequately educated, ethnic minority, male nursing major, who plays a sport well and cuddles up to a Provost would have a decided head start, then ...

No further comment needed, I believe.



timber

from the admissions web site Univ Of Michigan:
Counselors evaluate applications aided by a "selection index" worksheet listing factors the University believes important in composing a class, and select a numerical value for each factor, up to a possible total of 150 points. Academic factors account for up to 110 points. Eighty points are available for academic GPA from tenth and eleventh grades, and 12 points are available for standardized test scores. Every applicant from the same school receives the same number of points -- up to ten -- for the academic strength of that school. In addition, counselors subtract up to four points for an applicant who chose a weaker curriculum when a stronger one was available, and add up to eight points for an applicant who selected more challenging courses.

by the published criteria at the Univ up to 110 points can be earned for academic performance out of a total of 150 points available.

ON THURSDAY, White House lawyers filed a brief with the Supreme Court arguing that the University of Michigan’s affirmative action policies are unconstitutional and unfair. More than two-thirds of Americans polled said they don’t think colleges and universities should give preference in admissions based on race or ethnicity. They also felt strongly that preferential treatment should be denied to children of alumni, athletes and even musicians and other artists. However, 65 percent would approve of affirmative action based on income, giving preference for college admissions to applicants from low-income families, regardless of their race or ethnic background.
Online Poll: Tell us what you think about President George W. Bush, affirmative action and war with Iraq.

Blacks, along with musicians and other artists, received the most support for preferential treatment in college admissions, with 26 percent of those polled saying the two groups should get preference, 69 percent saying musicians should not and 68 percent saying blacks should not (the remainder did not know). Support was about the same for other minorities-25 and 23 percent say preference should be given to Hispanic and Asian applicants respectively (70 and 71 percent say it should not). Legacies received the least support, with nearly three-quarters of respondents (74 percent) saying children of alumni should not get preferential treatment in college admissions, and just 19 percent saying they should. Athletes received slightly more support, with 22 percent saying they should get preference in admissions and 73 percent saying they should not.
Forty-four percent of respondents—and 54 percent of minorities polled—say they view affirmative action as an attempt to increase outreach efforts to find qualified black and Hispanic college applicants, while 38 percent (or 26 percent of minorities only) see it as setting quotas or reserving a fixed number of positions for the two minority groups in college admissions (18 percent don’t know). More than half of those polled (53 percent) say affirmative action for blacks and Hispanics does not have much effect at all on the overall quality of higher education, while 22 percent say it improves the quality, and 14 percent say it decreased the quality. Among minorities polled, one-third say the quality of education is improved, ten percent say it is decreased, and 44 percent say the quality is not affected much.

Interesting, and really to-be-expected results. Still, an idea's popularity has no bearing on its accuracy.

At least the problem and a need for its solution has been recognized and acknowledged. Some might say "That's the First Step". Theoretically, the program has begun and may be expected to progress from this point.



timber

dys--

Reading back, I see you have been patiently asserting the 12% stat I cited is wrong.

I see your numbers changed at least once, as well.

I be tired, and don't want to go off and verify the stats right now, but you are certainly owed that (plus I need to know.)

I plan to read the numbers myself, because I got mine from the TV news. There is probably all kinds of spin in translating the numbers, and maybe mistakes...

I will get back to you on this.

Thanks for the heads up.

Only if "the populace" is responsible for deciding whether we go to war. (And I would dispute your claim of "trending" anyway.)

"George Bush has jumped into the fray at the University of Michigan, saying too many black kids are getting in. It's nice to know that while Bush is juggling wars against North Korea and Iraq, and struggling to get the economy back on track, he still has time to stick it to the black man."
-- Tina Fey, Weekend Update

Yeah, that's exactly the point the administration is trying to make.

You don't think so obviously - huh, tres? You think old shrub is good at heart, wants diversity, but just doesn't want "quotas", huh?

What do you think, tres?

sheesh, you'd think, dang i don't know what i expect people to have learned over the past decades, but you'd think they'd have learned something. Just because things are a bit better, doesn't mean they're ok. i'm having a big case of harrrrrrumphhhhing.

At least Colin Powel disagreed with the administration as a whole. Condaleeza Rice - what was she thinking?

Here's a link to Jimmy Breslin's excellent column on the topic, and Colin Powell:

Jimmy Breslin in Newsday

thanks, PDiddie.

With respect, I think you are too ensconced in your own bias to ever consider another point of view.