This is funny. The phrase is traditionally used as what not to be.
As in "I support my country, I am not a 'my country right or wrong' simpleton but I support my country."
This is the first time I've seen people (actually only one) willingly adopt that particular phrase as representative of their own positions.
"Countries" cannot be right or wrong.
People who lead countries can.
Why would you support those whom you thought wrong?
Because to the best of my knowledge there are no sinless saints out there. I myself have made errors in judgment, said things that I thought were correct at the time and turned out to be wrong, and screwed up a thing or two. And I have done a few things I'm not proud of. At the same time I don't believe I'm evil, I think my heart is usually in the right place, and I believe (I hope) I do more good than harm. If despite all my flaws I wish for necessary support from others, how can I not be a hypocrite and not allow others their own sins and flaws?
Having said that, there is a matter of qualifications and competency for a given task. Some things I am imminently qualified to do. Some things anybody would be a fool to hire me to do them.
I can see a difference between these two concepts.
So - would it have been right of your friends to stand silent when you were saying, or doing, the things you now consider to be wrong?
Man, I said I was out of here.
Responding to this--
By all means love it if you wish - but right or wrong? Well, if I went about with closed eyes, I would bump into stuff. Mebbe you have better senses?
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When you love something or someone, only when they are riding high, and right--but dissolve into hatred when they are wrong, you really didn't love them/it in the first place.
It is not necessary to close one's eyes to mistakes or folly, in order to absorb the wrong--and get about the business of improving things as you can.
I wouldn't want or respect a love, or allegience, that turned off and on like that. Fair weather...
Who said anything about hatred, Sofia?
That is YOUR interpolation.
Being open-eyed does not imply hatred! That is a ridiculous, and quite false dichotomy.
Do you hate your loved ones when you see faults? Do you hate yourself?
Good grief.
Sheesh, Sofia you are not a "my country right or wrong" person.
Do you love your country merely because you were born into it?
You usually say you love it for what it has represented and that seems to indicate that you love it for being right on those counts and that if it represented something else you might not.
Dlowan and pdiddie, I have already answered the question about how to deal with those who are wrong. You help them get it right. Like I said, my elected representatives no doubt cringe when they see my emails in their in boxes. But they still answer them. And their offices still take my calls too.
Craven--
I don't know what definition you and others have assigned to "My country, right..."
Even if it is lifted from the author's intent, I clearly understand what Fox is saying. I don't think Fox is buying into the 'blind, mindless patriotism' that seems to be universally forced on the phrase. I think she, like me, sees a phrase, and takes it literally. It IS my country, right or wrong.
You were correct, in that I would reject my country if it espoused genocide, or trampled on human rights, and such... But that is not applicable, thankfully. That being, I work to assist it in living up to its'potential, and would not dishonor it by certain behaviors I deem to be dishonorable.
Dlowan--
You said--
Being open-eyed does not imply hatred! That is a ridiculous, and quite false dichotomy.
----
To which, I say--
And continuing to love a country through mistakes and folly does not imply closed eyes! That is a ridiculous, and quite false dichotomy. Takes one, sometimes, to elicit another one.
I guess I could have said that it pains me to see Fox forcefully branded with a sentiment she tried so patiently to disavow.
Thanks Sofia. They do sometimes keep the branding irons hot but I pretty much ignore it anymore.
Sofia wrote:I guess I could have said that it pains me to see Fox forcefully branded with a sentiment she tried so patiently to disavow.
Fox took up the phrase herself, don't blame anyone but her for that (though she might be inclined to, goes hand in hand with the ole victimization routine).
And we can always count on Craven to come up with a personal insult when he's bested in an argument too.
Damn. You've seen him bested...!??
It's really rare, but it happens.
(This isn't one of the times...)
I don't understand all this love talk about a country. I appreciate the things that this country has given me...but love? Come on! It's a f*cking country, not a baseball team!
I gave you no personal insult Fox.
I happen to think the phrase doesn't fit for you either, as you say your love is based on right outweighing the wrong. If you choose to adopt it this is your prerogative, and mentioning the predictable victim routine is not an insult unless you decide to take it that way (and you can deicide to take anything that way if you are so inclined).
Okay Craven. If you want to say an insult wasn't an insult that's your prerogative too. And I'll just use your exit lines - your argument is fallacious and never mind. I gotta get back to work.
