"My country/president, right or wrong!"

I think it one of the most pathetic bits of nonsense I have ever heard.

If people really believe that - well, 'tis a watershed thing for me - I have no respect for 'em.

Nor, I suspect, they for me....teehee...

I was talking about how I disapproved of the war, in an english class, and everyone got really angry at me. One kid said "You need to support the president no matter what," essentially.

On a different note, I said I did not feel it my duty to serve if they tried to draft me, because I oppose the war, and I was branded a heretic and executed on the site.

The phrase "My country right or wrong" does not say to me that 'My country is always right no matter what it does." I've done my share of sit ins, marching, and protests and I'm sure my elected legislators cringe when they see my emails in their in boxes.

But there is a part of patriotism that says my country, even when it is wrong, is still the best place to be on earth--sort of like the wierd aunt that embarasses you but she's still family. The good in my country far outweighs any bad, or else I would leave it.

I have always believed true patriots work to make things right but they do not dishonor their country, especially on foreign soil, and they do no harm, especially when their soldiers are in harms way.

What gets me is we hear about these unpatriotic people who ought to be kidnapped; now I'm waiting for the fingers to point at the ones of us who have it coming. I haven't seen over half a dozen folks in my lifetime who should in my estimation fit in that category.

Edgar, he wasn't serious. There are plenty of things he was serious about for us to attack, let's not waste our energy.

Thank you SCoates. I wouldhn't have phrased it quite the way he did either. But you're right there is plenty of ammunition there to debate

He wasn't serious, they say, as edgar backs slowly away. (They know this guy well enough to speak for him -?)

Do you know him well enough to say without reservation that he was serious?

He said it without a smiley face on.

Hey, I'm a boy. I was kidding anyway. But I hope he wasn't serious.

No smiley face? Man, you can get hung for that in some states. Or maybe just Arizona now.

You have to forgive my mistakes tonight. I am ill. I thought foxfire said he wasn't serious.

The tragedy of war is that it uses man's best to do man's worst.
--- Harry Fosdick (War )

To show you how disoriented I must be, I thought this thread was the one called Be American. I withdraw. Good night.

Good night.

Letty, so "man's best" would be... guns?

Would depend on the gun.

Hhmmm ... I dont think my country is necessarily the best place on earth, not even in a weird-aunt kind of way. So why am I not leaving?

Simple. This is where my family lives. My friends. My job's here. I'm familiar with the place. The skies are beautiful.

Are those all valid reasons to wanna live somewhere? If yes, doesnt that necessarily mean that someone should be free to choose to live somewhere, even if he does express the opinion that it's most definitely not the best country/nation/people/society in the world?


The "dishonor" argument, by ways of answer, doesnt really do more than reiterate the original question. For what does "dishonoring" mean? Is expressing the opinion that your country or people is not the best on earth, to someone abroad, dishonoring your country? Why?

It also reiterates the point Noddy was alluding to. When you think your country is going down some dangerous path, is it more patriotic to remain mum about it or to raise your voice against the danger? Does it really make a difference whether you do the latter in NY or in Rome?

In extremis, if you sincerely think that your country is spiralling so far down, so quickly, that the only chance you'll stand to get your warning about it out is by making it abroad, isnt that as much a sign of how much you're concerned about your country as any supposed hate of it?

Marlene Dietrich left Germany at the advent of Nazism and went to America, where she proceeded to warn against what Germany had become. To many, she is a hero of the "other" Germany, the Germany that stood up against evil when it threatened to overtake the country. But many conservatives still havent forgiven her - even many who think Nazism was vile still believe she betrayed her country by doing that.

But Nimh, Marlene did exactly what I would suggest anybody should do if they honestly believe the United States is not the best place to be. If I get to the point I need to trash my country, I'll leave it as I said. If your father or son or wife or friend is misbehaving, do you go to the nearest pub or the town square to air your family problems? Would that not dishonor the family? Or do you go about finding some way to solve the problem?

I think I made it perfectly clear that I don't approve of everything the national government does (or the state and local governments either for that matter) and I am by no means silent about it. But the U.S. is my home of choice, it has been good to me, and I will do what I can to see that problems are fixed. But just as I will not needlessly embarrass or trash the members of my own family, neither will I embarrass or trash my country. That I do not believe is constructive and I believe it does harm.

And I'm sorry you don't think of your country as the best place on earth. I wish everybody could live in the best place on earth to them.