Another Day Where We Do Not Know If Any Gods Exist Or Not!

Do you mind if I ask what happened Frank?

I think you are. Very much so.

And that you are being prideful.

Just an opinion.

Not at all...and if I may, allow me to paraphrase Paul as my answer:

When I was a young, naive man...I talked like a young, naive man...I thought like a young, naive man...I reasoned like a young, naive man. When I became an adult, I put the ways of young, naive manhood behind me.

So... You just woke up one morning, realized it was all a bunch of childish crap, and walked away? Did I read that right?

Just about.

The time line is a bit more complex. I think you realize that, but wanted to make a statement without actually making a statement.

Anyhow, yeah...at some point I realized that I did not even know if a god existed...let alone what any god that did exist expected of me and my fellow humans. I realized that much of my "devotion" was motivated, at least in part, by fear of the unknown.

I got over the fear...and I came to grips with a stark truth:

I DO NOT KNOW IF ANY GODS EXIST...AND I CERTAINLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT ANY GODS THAT DO EXIST EXPECT OF ME OR ANY OF MY FELLOW HUMANS.

(I also began to wonder why a god who could make the universe, would care what I did or did not do...especially enough to reward or punish me for what I came to consider absurd rules.)

Do you mind me asking why you have not grown up and walked away from all that childish crap?

Actually, his purpose has never been punishment. The assignment he gave Adam and Eve, to cultivate the earth, expand the garden, have children, manage the animals are all things most people would find fulfilling. Add to that dominion over technology, and hardly anyone would mind (well, I wouldn't) that our assignment was really a kind of benevolent slavery.

What you consider punishment, in reality, is a consequence of human rebellion. And the tempter you claim God installed with foreknowledge of his designs, was not a tempter until he carried through with his plan, thus plunging all mankind into a different type of slavery, the type you have so vehemently excoriated in these fora. It ain't God's fault, Frank.

Right arrow, wrong target.

Nice speech but God doesn't tempt, period.
Satan does.


James 1:13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"

As you know, Neo...I am repulsed by that story of Adam and Eve. It undoubtedly played a part in my change.

If there is a god that would punish Adam and Eve for the sting operation presented...that god is not worth love, admiration, or worship.

Fact is...if a human acted the way the god Jesus worshiped acts...that human would be confined under conditions that would make the confinement of Hannibal Lecter seem relatively easy.

The reason for that is that Hannibal Lecter seems a relatively less violent character.

So you are reading challenged.
That's not what neo said.

I would have hoped for a more specific answer to see if your opinion is justified or not. But your later posts make it plain you are not looking to revisit the question of 'God' so we can drop it.

Wow! I thought my answer was very specific...perhaps even too much so.

I think you are being a hypocrite...and are being prideful.

How much more specific can I get?




I am willing to discuss gods from now until whenever. Not sure what you are saying here at all.

Not at all.

Because I can't, Frank. I have TRIED, and I just can't. Believe me, I have wanted to a thousand times over. I didn't ask to be here. That has been my famous one liner since the day I realized I was rejected in the womb by my own mother.

I didn't ask to be here.

Wow. Even saying that makes my heart hurt. My story is so much huger than I could ever write here. Which is why I am writing a book... Lol But, let me tell you just how far I went to try to get away from it all. Shortly after I left the abusive douchbag I was married to when I was last here I moved back to FL to then find out my step father, paternal father, and best friend were all dying of cancer.

I turned to my brother for support and in return he took the things I said, twisted them and then made me out to be a completely irresponsible schmuck to my paternal father, who was apparently quite wealthy, in a effort to cut me completely out of his will. He proudly boasted of what he was doing to my mother. I did not know that though. Nor did I care, to be honest. That money wasn't my dad. I wanted to keep my dad not his stupid money.

I only had six years of getting to know him before he died. My mother robbed me of his presence in my childhood by telling me at the age of nine he never wanted me and had asked her to have an abortion when he found out she was pregnant with me. My brother stole the last six months. My father died doubting my integrity and I cannot even begin to express the depth of hurt that has caused in my heart.

My father's passed within four months of each other and then about a year later, my best friend passed too. That was it. I was done. I never asked to be here dagnabit, and this goes way beyond just life's not fair. It all began to feel quite intentional, to say the least. So, I picked up a bottle and began my quest to drink myself to death. For the first three years I drove drunk every single day.

That is 1068 days... In a row... Of me, drunk as a skunk, driving around, STILL drinking, hoping to get drunk enough to pass out, crash into a tree, and die. I am not proud of that. It is by far the stupidest thing I have ever done in my life. I don't even know if I can comprehend the depth of despair I was trying to run away from at that point, to be honest.

Near the end of those three years I was beginning to doubt if my plan was going to work, so... I started trying to put a few pieces back together and coming back to God. Why though? How could a loving God just sit back and watch life literally take a dump on my head, burying me so deep I could no longer see the light of day, and do nothing? Believe me, I asked myself and many others that question... A hundred times over.

Why God? Why?

Well, I do not yet have an answer for that. However, I can tell you this... I never stopped believing in Him because I couldn't. At the age of 27 He healed the physical scars I had from being raped at the age of five or six. I called my Pastors wife, balling my eyes out and asked her, "Why would God do that? Why does it even matter anymore? I am 27 years old. The damage is already done."

Her reply was, "Well Robin, I believe God did that to show you that if He can heal you on the outside, He can heal you on the inside too." And He has. I still kept drinking for three more years after my, now husband, used to be boyfriend demanded I stop drinking and driving or he would leave. In those six years I was quite angry with God. I cussed Him out perhaps a hundred times or more, but I just kept a walking because I didn't know what else to do.

I begged with Him. I pleaded... "Please God... Just let me die. I am so tired of hurting. Of being rejected. Of feeling so alone and misunderstood, and still loving people anyway. I don't want to care anymore. Why can't I just not care anymore? I don't care if there is a heaven or hell. I don't care if I just cease to exist. God... I never asked to be here. Please just let me go."

After six years of this nonsense I finally realized It just wasn't gonna work to drink myself to death. What I just said was my final plea. I got an answer that time. He said to me, in His still small voice that one can only hear when their heart is finally quiet, "I asked you to be here." I am still in my darkest hour, but I believe that is going to end soon. It is finally going to end.

My darkest hour has been this... Five months ago my husband and I lost everything. House, cars, eight horse, two dogs, thousands of dollars of personal effects, and my dream. I wanted to open a rescue and rehabilitation center for abused horses and at risk youth. Use horse whispering techniques to teach the kids and horses how to get beyond their abuse. Because I figured if I couldn't die to get away, Maybe I could find some sort of healing in helping others.

We are homeless. Not sleeping on a bench homeless. That friend of mine that is helping me to finally remember some good things about my childhood took us in. The $200,000 inheritance my father left me... Gone. Stolen mostly by a horse rescue that was supposed to be helpimg me get my own started. The horses... Gone. It's all gone. *sigh*

I have nothing left to give anyone anymore, except to share my story. Surely, there has got to be some value in that to someone. Somewhere. If it could help one person... Just one... To come to know and understand the love that I have found in Him and Him alone... It would all be worth it.

Be assured that your trials are not God's purpose. Read Revelation 21:3-5.

Sorry to digress from the OP, Frank. I thought it best.

How can you be sure?

I am... Now.

In a little while you won't be alone.

Relevations 13:16-17 " It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

You can't buy anything without his mark, but if you recieve it:

God will let out all of his wrath on you
You also will never have a chance of forgiveness and you are sealed to hell.

Pick wisely

Please find time to watch this

http://youtu.be/CmvCFd866R8
Its already upon us.

6 years after the video and we still have all of this chaos. I wish someone could find some way to bring order. If God nor the devil can give it to us I don't think we will ever see it.

I think you may like this one more.

Yet one more day where we do not know if any gods exist or not!