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Another Day Where We Do Not Know If Any Gods Exist Or Not!

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 03:59 am
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gogh/gogh.chambre-arles.jpg

Yet another day where we do not know if gods exist or not!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 04:01 am
@Frank Apisa,
What you see is what you get: i said you never defined "god"; so when you defined "god", you proved me wrong...
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 07:52 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Au contraire, if Frank cannot define what a god is, how can he speak of them gods so often, and can he say in confidence anything about them, like "we don't know whether they exist or not"?


Articulating "we do not know whether they [god or gods] exist or not" is the most logical intelligent answer one can intelligently give.

Quote:
If he can't define the concept, he should keep his stance more modest. He could rightly say: "I don't know what a god is", for instance, and leave it at that.


Who among us with the weight of authority can define the true concept of god? One may go back to man's early concept, before Monotheism, and claim that older version's concept of paganism is the right one. From a layman's point of view, one can only give their *personal* conceptual version of what a god is, say like your statement "one who created the Universe." That, Oliver5, is YOUR definition of what a god is. Your statements to Frank is an unfair generalization. There are many in the scientific field of pure science who would question your hypothesis.

Scientists are unable to prove there is a god and cannot disprove there is a god....everything is theoretical, with the idea of a god being an afterthought. How do we know that the end of this Universe is not the beginning of another, an on ad infinitum? There is speculation that a comet might have seeded life on Mother Earth by bringing Amino Acid, a mineral, which is needed for the building blocks of life. Scientists are still trying to understand Dark Matter in the Universe which eludes us still. "As much as 90 percent of this dark matter in the universe is invisible." Detecting this dark matter will help cosmologists better comprehend the universe's destiny, and possibly who or what created this vast Universe if such is the right question.

So, back to earth, a religious personal god is taken on faith, and not something which can be proven. To ask Frank to prove the concept of a super god is asking him to give his version and he has done so by saying "we don't know if there is a god or if gods exist."
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 11:23 am
@korkamann,
korkamann wrote:
Who among us with the weight of authority can define the true concept of god? . . .
About all we could do is try to discern whether God has defined himself.

Though Frank and I politely disagree, I have always held that the name he revealed. http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/neologist/Tetragrammaton.jpg

Literally translated, means "He who causes to become"
In my opinion, the name contains a promise that his purpose for Adam and Eve will succeed
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 12:22 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

korkamann wrote:
Who among us with the weight of authority can define the true concept of god? . . .
About all we could do is try to discern whether God has defined himself.

Though Frank and I politely disagree, I have always held that the name he revealed. http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/neologist/Tetragrammaton.jpg

Literally translated, means "He who causes to become"
In my opinion, the name contains a promise that his purpose for Adam and Eve will succeed


Interesting - where's that come from?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 12:39 pm
@korkamann,
Quote:
From a layman's point of view, one can only give their *personal* conceptual version of what a god is, say like your statement "one who created the Universe." That, Oliver5, is YOUR definition of what a god is.

That's all I wanted from Frank: his definition. And he gave it, and we both agree on what it is, so the case is closed.

I agree that we don't know if the universe was created, and by whom/what. I think everybody agree, no?
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 01:58 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

korkamann wrote:
Who among us with the weight of authority can define the true concept of god? . . .
About all we could do is try to discern whether God has defined himself.

Though Frank and I politely disagree, I have always held that the name he revealed. http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/neologist/Tetragrammaton.jpg

Literally translated, means "He who causes to become"
In my opinion, the name contains a promise that his purpose for Adam and Eve will succeed


Thank you for your post, Neo.

I, for one, would have to have some kind of spiritual faith before beginning to "discern whether god has defined himself," which I do not. I believe both the Old and New Testament was composed by mankind and is a traditional part of our civilization. Our species is 3 million years according to the discovery of Lucy, Mother of today's Homo sapiens, in Ethiopia 1994; earliest Human Civilization is only 5000 years ago according to recorded history. It was during this period that Monotheism came into being. My question to you, what about all the millions of years of man's existence before the concept of the one-god came into being or before mankind even thought of an entity be it trees, animals or the one god? Mankind lived and died, just as it's doing today, only we have more physical trappings and institutions in which to do it.

Religion serves its psychological purpose for those who need it the most and that's why it was invented initially; there was a subjective and emotional NEED for such a belief. Religion is very much a necessity today by many within our world. I am not one of those who stridently argue with religious believers whose ideology differs with mine; I, do, however, wish them well, as I do you.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 02:14 am
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zfi0ChmjgXY/VCLnHeJ0k3I/AAAAAAAAdjU/pFns8D5TGuM/s1600/Beautiful%2BWinter%2BScenery%2BWallpapers%2B(9).jpg


Another day where we do not know if gods exist or not!
korkamann
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 10:54 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zfi0ChmjgXY/VCLnHeJ0k3I/AAAAAAAAdjU/pFns8D5TGuM/s1600/Beautiful%2BWinter%2BScenery%2BWallpapers%2B(9).jpg


What a beautiful picture, Frank. Thanks for posting it.
0 Replies
 
arup1990
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 11:00 am
@Frank Apisa,
nice word for health
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 01:24 pm
@snood,
korkamann wrote:
Who among us with the weight of authority can define the true concept of god? . . .
I wrote:
About all we could do is try to discern whether God has defined himself.

Though Frank and I politely disagree, I have always held that the name he revealed. http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/neologist/Tetragrammaton.jpg

Literally translated, means "He who causes to become"
In my opinion, the name contains a promise that his purpose for Adam and Eve will succeed
Snood wrote:
Interesting - where's that come from?
The four letters, often referred to as the Tetragrammaton, read from right to left as 'yod heh waw heh' are wriiten thousands of times in the Hebrew scriptures. But for some superstition, Jews refused to pronounce it and currently we do not know if it should be Yahweh or Jehovah or '?' The most common English pronounciation, Jehovah, was widely used even in the US until last century.

It seems certain that the Jewish superstition was in error since Jesus reminded his disciples on more than one occasion to 'hallow' the Father's name.

I've always considered the name as a guarantee that whatever purpose God sets forth, He will not be denied. After all, Christians have been praying for God's "will to be done for nearly 2000 years.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 04:28 pm
@korkamann,
korkamann wrote:
. . . My question to you, what about all the millions of years of man's existence before the concept of the one-god came into being or before mankind even thought of an entity be it trees, animals or the one god? . . .
Flippant neo answer: "I wasn't there."
Seriously:
What befuddles me about this is how written language developed so suddenly. And, collaterally, how so many religious practices and beliefs have common origins and developed concurrently. When we explore that, we may get a better understanding of the truth.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 05:18 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
What befuddles me about this is how written language developed so suddenly.


Wow...sudden rain storms must baffle you completely.

Stuff happens, Neo.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 05:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
What befuddles me about this is how written language developed so suddenly.


Wow...sudden rain storms must baffle you completely.

Stuff happens, Neo.



There you have it - Frank's theory. Stuff happens. Why didn't I think of that?
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 07:02 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

korkamann wrote:
. . . My question to you, what about all the millions of years of man's existence before the concept of the one-god came into being or before mankind even thought of an entity be it trees, animals or the one god? . . .


Flippant neo answer: "I wasn't there."
Seriously:
What befuddles me about this is how written language developed so suddenly. And, collaterally, how so many religious practices and beliefs have common origins and developed concurrently. When we explore that, we may get a better understanding of the truth.


I don't think the written language developed so slowly. There was the Egyptian hieroglyphs initially. The Rosetta Stone was the key to understanding the meaning of hieroglyphs. The earliest writing can be traced to Sumer, in Mesopotamia. This system did not use an alphabet, instead it used pictographs which are symbols representing familiar objects. This type of writing was called cuneiform, or wedge-shaped writing. Egyptians used hieroglyphics, also a pictograph system.

The use of an alphabet probably originated among the Phoenicians sometime between 1700 and 1500 BC. This Semitic writing had only consonants; the ancient Greeks later came up with the idea of vowels. The Chinese writing system, also very ancient, maintained its pictograph character instead of developing an alphabet.

"The history and prehistory of writing are as long as the history of civilization itself. Indeed the development of communication by writing was a basic step in the advance of civilization.

"Yet writing is little more than 5,000 years old. The oldest writings that have come down to the present day are inscriptions on clay tablets made by the Sumerians in about 3100 BC. The Sumerians lived in Mesopotamia, between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The Egyptians in the Nile River valley developed writing about 100 to 200 years later.

"Writing is sometimes spoken of as humankind's greatest invention. It was developed by many people, in many places, and over a long period of time. The identity of the individuals responsible for the major steps in the development of writing is not known. Their names, like those of the inventors of the wheel, are lost forever in the dimness of the past."

http://history-world.org/writing.htm

The average man in the street during the earliest periods of writing were illiterate with ministers, Rabbis etc the educated ones. During the time of Jesus ordinary people were not educated. There were religious prophets all over the place preaching the word of God. It is speculated Jesus was also a prophet. No disciples writing in the New Testament lived during the time of Jesus and the story of Jesus' sojourn during his short life has many contradictions.

The need for a protector is something that exist in all men, and this is where gods come into place. We know how the "Abrahamic religious traditions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), all of which trace their origins to this misty figure, and which together claim half the world’s population." We know a Pharaoh named Akhenaten was the originator of Monotheism, and when the Jews were freed from Egypt they took the Monotheism concept with them, with other Egyptians returning to polytheism. Human groups migrated carrying some parts of the culture with them, especially the need to worship a god.

Later....
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 03:27 am
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/01/rosetta_stone_2.jpg

http://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/rose010_big_copy.jpg


Yup...another day where we do not know if gods exist or not!
timur
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 06:31 am
Another day we don't know if leprechauns exist:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mf3xe1BNa0M/UyVyHnTJhsI/AAAAAAAAeuE/WA_fOK5nVLw/s1600/leprechaun.jpg
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 09:23 am
@Frank Apisa,
Did you read where it gave instructions for hitting the dog leg left?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 10:50 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

korkamann wrote:
Who among us with the weight of authority can define the true concept of god? . . .
I wrote:
About all we could do is try to discern whether God has defined himself.

Though Frank and I politely disagree, I have always held that the name he revealed. http://thmb.inkfrog.com/thumbn/neologist/Tetragrammaton.jpg

Literally translated, means "He who causes to become"
In my opinion, the name contains a promise that his purpose for Adam and Eve will succeed
Snood wrote:
Interesting - where's that come from?
The four letters, often referred to as the Tetragrammaton, read from right to left as 'yod heh waw heh' are wriiten thousands of times in the Hebrew scriptures. But for some superstition, Jews refused to pronounce it and currently we do not know if it should be Yahweh or Jehovah or '?' The most common English pronounciation, Jehovah, was widely used even in the US until last century.

It seems certain that the Jewish superstition was in error since Jesus reminded his disciples on more than one occasion to 'hallow' the Father's name.

I've always considered the name as a guarantee that whatever purpose God sets forth, He will not be denied. After all, Christians have been praying for God's "will to be done for nearly 2000 years.

Imagine that. The Bible is supposed to be God's word unequivocally understandable by the most common of men, and yet it can't even get the pronunciation of his name correct, let alone the etymology of that name.
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 11:19 am
@InfraBlue,
I think we can lay the lost pronunciation on the Historical Jews. I certainly hope to be around to learn it correctly. As for the meaning and derivation, enough collateral scripture exists to verify understanding God's purpose to be certain. One instance:
Quote:
11 So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
It will not return to me without results,
But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
And it will have sure success in what I send it to do. (Isaiah 55:11)
 

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