0
   

THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 06:59 am
Quote:
2. The Schiavo Case and the Islamization of the Repub...
The Schiavo Case and the Islamization of the Republican Party

The cynical use by the US Republican Party of the Terri Schiavo case repeats, whether deliberately or accidentally, the tactics of Muslim fundamentalists and theocrats in places like Egypt and Pakistan. These tactics involve a disturbing tendency to make private, intimate decisions matters of public interest and then to bring the courts and the legislature to bear on them. President George W. Bush and Republican congressional leaders like Tom Delay have taken us one step closer to theocracy on the Muslim Brotherhood model.

The Muslim fundamentalists use a provision of Islamic law called "bringing to account" (hisba). As Al-Ahram weekly notes, "Hisba signifies a case filed by an individual on behalf of society when the plaintiff feels that great harm has been done to religion." Hisba is a medieval idea that had all be lapsed when the fundamentalists brought it back in the 1970s and 1980s.

In this practice, any individual can use the courts to intervene in the private lives of others. Among the more famous cases of such interference is that of Nasr Hamid Abu Zaid in Egypt. A respected modern scholar of Koranic studies, Abu Zaid argued that, contrary to medieval interpretations of Islamic law, women and men should receive equal inheritance shares. (Medieval Islamic law granted women only have the inheritance shares of their brothers). Abu Zaid was accused of sacrilege. Then the allegation of sacrilege was used as a basis on which the fundamentalists sought to have the courts forcibly divorce him from his wife.

Abu Zaid's wife loved her husband. She did not want to be divorced. But the fundamentalists went before the court and said, she is a Muslim, and he is an infidel, and no Muslim woman may be married to an infidel. They represented their efforts as being on behalf of the Islamic religion, which had an interest in seeing to it that heretics like Abu Zaid could not remain married to a Muslim woman. In 1995 the hisba court actually found against them. They fled to Europe, and ultimately settled in Holland.

Likewise, a similar tactic was deployed against the Egyptian feminist author, Nawal Saadawi, but it failed and she was able to remain in the country.

One of the most objectionable features of this fundamentalist tactic is that persons without standing can interfere in private affairs. Perfect strangers can file a case about your marriage, because they represent themselves as defending a public interest (the upholding of religion and morality).

Terri Schiavo's husband is her legal guardian. Her parents have not succeeded in challenging this status of his. As long as he is the guardian, the decision on removing the feeding tubes is between him and their physicians. Her parents have not succeeded in having this responsibility moved from him to them. Even under legislation George W. Bush signed in 1999 while governor of Texas, the spouse and the physician can make this decision. (The bill Bush signed in Texas actually made ability to pay a consideration in the decision!)

In passing a special law to allow the case to be kicked to a Federal judge after the state courts had all ruled in favor of the husband, Congress probably shot itself in the foot once again. The law is not a respecter of persons, so the Federal judge will likely rule as the state ones did.

But the most frightening thing about the entire affair is that public figures like congressmen inserted themselves into the case in order to uphold religious strictures. The lawyer arguing against the husband let the cat out of the bag, as reported by the NYT: ' The lawyer, David Gibbs, also said Ms. Schiavo's religious beliefs as a Roman Catholic were being infringed because Pope John Paul II has deemed it unacceptable for Catholics to refuse food and water. "We are now in a position where a court has ordered her to disobey her church and even jeopardize her eternal soul," Mr. Gibbs said. '

In other words, the United States Congress acted in part on behalf of the Roman Catholic church. Both of these public bodies interfered in the private affairs of the Schiavos, just as the fundamentalist Egyptian, Nabih El-Wahsh, tried to interfere in the marriage of Nawal El Saadawi.

Like many of his fundamentalist counterparts in the Middle East, Tom Delay is rather cynically using this issue to divert attention from his own corruption. Like the Muslim fundamentalist manipulators of Hisba, Delay represents himself as acting on behalf of a higher cause. He said of the case over the weekend, ' "This is not a political issue. This is life and death," '

Republican Hisba will have the same effect in the United States that it does in the Middle East. It will reduce the rights of the individual in favor of the rights of religious and political elites to control individuals. Ayatollah Delay isn't different from his counterparts in Iran.
Tue, Mar 22, 2005 0:08
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 07:22 am
Link, Ge?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 07:40 am
Kara wrote:
Link, Ge?


Sorry, it's still missing ... yes... link..link Laughing Embarrassed

Link is here X

Get it? link?.... missing? Crying or Very sad sorry...
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 08:22 am
Someone asked for this info a while back.....

klik me

You're welcome whomever
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 10:12 am
Quote:
Get it? link?.... missing? sorry...


Aw, gee, ya didn't have to 'splain.... Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 10:17 am
Kara wrote:
Quote:
Get it? link?.... missing? sorry...


Aw, gee, ya didn't have to 'splain.... Rolling Eyes


Woke upina goofymood ..

did you follow ths ilink from Juans site?

http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 10:28 am
I don't understand why the GOP has chosen to involve themselves in this either. Maybe you are right and Delay is trying to divert atttention away from himself. But that don't explain everyone else.

I have also long held the view that some of the extreme political religious GOP's are nearly the other side of the same coin as the religious fanatics of Islam.

However, I think both have the right to hold those extreme religious views. It is only when violence gets thrown into it that a line is drawn. IMO

If the majority of the citizens of the United States decide to go against everything this country has stood for since it's conception and have Christianity as it's guiding influence in forming laws while still respecting other religions or those who don't have a religion, then as sad as that case would be, it would only be right that they (we) get to do it. (Although I really don't understand what that means in practice.)

The big difference though in Delay's case and others is that in this country we are not supposed to form it's laws based on religious beliefs. Sometimes I have the feeling that they try to sneak religion in the back door without being so obvious about it that they can be called on it.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 10:33 am
Interesting take on the story.

On the hour-long BBC news program today on NPR, there were widely ranging viewpoints in interviews about this case. Reasonable men can differ.

But it has indeed become a media circus.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 10:39 am
What has damaged Michael Schiavo's case is possible motivations lurking in the background. He wants to marry his companion and cannot do so until he, as a Catholic, is divorced, annulled, or widowed. So even if her parents take over Terri's custody and care, the problem of him having a living wife is the obstruction to his remarriage. Thus, his self-interest is clear and taints his spoken beliefs, no matter how sincere, that she "would not want to live this way."
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 10:56 am
Everything that comes out of he Whitehouse any more is straight from Barnum Baily & Rove.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 01:34 pm
Kara wrote:
What has damaged Michael Schiavo's case is possible motivations lurking in the background. He wants to marry his companion and cannot do so until he, as a Catholic, is divorced, annulled, or widowed. So even if her parents take over Terri's custody and care, the problem of him having a living wife is the obstruction to his remarriage. Thus, his self-interest is clear and taints his spoken beliefs, no matter how sincere, that she "would not want to live this way."


Well, that is an interesting bit of news, though I feel I am adding to the problem by talking about it as much as anyone else.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 01:35 pm
Not here!!! lol

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 01:36 pm
Gelisgesti wrote:
Everything that comes out of he Whitehouse any more is straight from Barnum Baily & Rove.


So your saying you believe that this is just another distraction from the whitehouse (them getting involved with this case?) Probably right, which makes it doubly disgusting.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 04:35 pm
Aw, Cyclops, it was just a lil sidebar... :wink:
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 04:56 pm
In an effort to get back on track:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-03-22-ukraine-iraq_x.htm

Quote:


Also I read on yahoo that I can't seem to link from the AP that civillians in Iraq are taking up arms against the insurgents. Maybe that means soon we won't be needed as much if at all.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 05:12 pm
If the occupation and their own police/military doesn't protect them, I see no other solution but to take up arms themselves against the insurgents. It'll need to be a big numbers to have any effect.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 05:56 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, You're gonna have to figure out this one on your own. I'm too tired playing mental gymnastics with you.


Alas, I am not a mind reader.

I asked you (emphasis added):
Please elaborate on what you mean by "different levels of truth."

I can guess. I guess you mean that everything stated by anyone at any time is true (or false) to some degree even if that degree in some cases were infinitesimal. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 05:58 pm
That's a good start. Keep going.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 06:35 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
What I would never do is say you are 100% DEAD FLAT WRONG. Nothing in this life is certain, as Werner Heisenberg has shown: http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08a1.htm

Never is a long time! So how can you know for certain what you would never say?

I recommend you replace your statement,
Quote:
Nothing in this life is certain.

by this statement,
Quote:
I bet nothing in this life is certain.


Please note that the first sentence of my signature is,
I bet certainty is impossible and probability suffices to govern belief and action.

Is it certain that A and ~A (i.e., not A) cannot be both true or both false at the same time and place? Maybe it depends on the time and/or the place. Maybe it depends on the observer. Beats me! I bet!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Mar, 2005 06:48 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
That's a good start. Keep going.

Where?

I bet truth is what is absolutely true in a given context! I also bet humans can know at best what is most probably absolutely true in a given context. I bet that all that is absolutely true on the earth is not necessarily true off the earth.

Please note my signature:
I bet certainty is impossible and probability suffices to govern belief and action.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.07 seconds on 10/04/2024 at 07:27:56