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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 05:44 am
Iraq Shooting Tied to Envoy's Visit
Negroponte Security Detail Fired at Italian Reporter's Car
By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, March 11, 2005; Page A16


The U.S. Army personnel who fired at the car carrying an Italian journalist to the Baghdad airport last Friday night were part of extra security provided for U.S. Ambassador John D. Negroponte, who was expected to travel that same road, according to a U.S. Embassy official in Baghdad.

"The mobile patrol was there to enhance security because Ambassador Negroponte was expected through," Robert Callahan, the U.S. Embassy spokesman in Baghdad, told the Associated Press yesterday. Callahan was confirming a report in Wednesday's edition of the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, which first disclosed that the U.S. Army unit had established the checkpoint to provide security for Negroponte, AP said.

Last night, senior officials at the State Department and Pentagon said the matter was under investigation and referred questions about the Army security unit to the Baghdad embassy.

The shots killed Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari and wounded Giuliana Sgrena, the journalist who had just been released after being held for a month by Iraqi kidnappers. Also wounded was a second Italian intelligence officer who was driving the car, which was taking Sgrena to a plane that was to bring her back to Italy.

The day after the shooting, a spokesman for the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry Division in Baghdad said the checkpoint was a temporary one and may have been difficult to see at night. The shooting took place about 8:55 p.m., two hours before Baghdad's curfew and less than an hour after Calipari had been led to where Sgrena had been hidden by her kidnappers.

According to the Italian government's version of events, given earlier this week by Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini, the Italians drove to the airport at a moderate speed of less than 40 mph because it was raining. During the drive Calipari had the light on in the car so he could make calls informing his superiors and U.S. military authorities of their travel to the airport, Italian officials said.

As the car emerged from a half-flooded underpass, it slowed down to make a sharp right around blocks of concrete, they said. Halfway through the turn, a sharp beam of light hit the car from some 30 yards away from the right side of the road. "As the driver consequently put on the brakes, bringing the vehicle almost immediately to a halt, fire from probably two automatic weapons opened up and lasted approximately 10 to 15 seconds," Fini told the Italian Chamber of Deputies on Tuesday.

That differs from an initial U.S. account of the incident, which Defense officials have since said will be fully investigated.

A statement by the 3rd Division after the shooting said the vehicle was speeding and did not stop after the military patrol cautioned the driver with hand and arm signals, flashes of white lights and warning shots. The soldiers involved were trained to aim at the engine block, the statement said.

Photos aired by Italy's state television showed the car had bullet holes on its right side near the front wheel and door, with another hole in the back seat, where Calipari and Sgrena were sitting.



© 2005 The Washington Post Company

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23128-2005Mar10.html
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 05:46 am
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/11108399.htm

Box: Children said held at Iraqi prison

Associated Press

BOY PRISONER: Investigators looking into abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq were told a boy no more than 11 years old was among the children imprisoned there.

ABUSE DENIED: Military officials say children at the prison were not subject to the abuses documented in photographs that helped spark the investigations.

TEEN ATTACKED: Documents recently released include a report that four men at the prison took a 17-year-old girl from her cell and sexually abused her.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 07:04 am
revel wrote:
"The mobile patrol was there to enhance security because Ambassador Negroponte was expected through," Robert Callahan, the U.S. Embassy spokesman in Baghdad, told the Associated Press yesterday.


Well, a mobile checkpoint, so to say.


revel wrote:
Photos aired by Italy's state television showed the car had bullet holes on its right side near the front wheel and door, with another hole in the back seat, where Calipari and Sgrena were sitting.


... just missed that engine, right?

Sad
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 07:11 am
You have a group of highly trained U.S. soldiers, all armed with high powered weapons and plenty of ammunition. If they had wanted the occupants of the car dead, they would be dead.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 07:36 am
Foxfyre wrote:
You have a group of highly trained U.S. soldiers, all armed with high powered weapons and plenty of ammunition. If they had wanted the occupants of the car dead, they would be dead.

What would you have with a bunch of poorly trained gaurdsmen that were scared shitless?
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 07:39 am
Quote:
Breaking News: Government to Be Formed
Bombing at Shiite Mosque in Mosul Kills 36

It has been announced that the Shiites and the Kurds have reached sufficient agreement to elect a government when the parliament meets on March 16. If true, this is very big news. It wasn't, however, a headline anywhere I looked on the Web. When I tried to check it at CNN I was informed for about an hour straight that Michael Jackson was late to court. I mean, it is outrageous that our supposed 24 hours a day cable news services baby-sit us this way with pablum.

In other news, a suicide bomber detonated a payload at a Shiite mosque in northeastern Mosul during a funeral, killing at least 36 persons. Elements in the guerrilla movement have been attempting to provoke a civil war between Sunnis and Shiites, but the increasingly powerful Shiites have consistently refused to be provoked in this way.
Thu, Mar 10, 2005 6:33
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 07:39 am
Foxfyre wrote:
You have a group of highly trained U.S. soldiers, all armed with high powered weapons and plenty of ammunition. If they had wanted the occupants of the car dead, they would be dead.


I don't think, someone ever denied this.

However, you think, they really just missed the engine?

(I mean, we still hav for safe, what those soldiers said!)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 07:52 am
Quote:
Pentagon Outlines Iraqi Troop Losses


WASHINGTON - Iraqi security forces are dying at twice the rate of U.S. soldiers in the country, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff told a congressional panel Thursday. Gen. Richard Myers told the House Armed Services Committee that has held true since last July 1.

"They've lost a lot of lives," agreed Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who appeared with Myers.

Though Myers didn't provide a figure, his statement would mean at least 1,000 Iraqi soldiers and police have been killed in the ongoing war with the insurgency since last July 1. During the same period, about 518 U.S. soldiers have been killed in combat, while about 140 more have died in accidents or otherwise outside of combat. Overall, more than 1,500 U.S. forces have died since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003.


Pentagon officials haven't previously provided a precise gauge of losses suffered by Iraqi security forces, who are frequently targeted by the insurgency.


Rumsfeld said 142,000 Iraqi personnel have now received some training and equipment. That includes 80,000 police and security personnel and 60,000 soldiers, officials said. A smaller number are considered capable of performing counterinsurgency operations.


Iraqi security forces capable of operating without the support of American forces are seen as the key to bringing U.S. soldiers home, but U.S. officials say that may be months or years away.
Source
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:18 am
The essential fact here is that the Italians paid a bribe or ransom to the terrorists who held their journalist - a bribe that will be used to finance additional acts of terrorism against U.S. forces and the Iraqi people. Moreover they had done so before - in defiance of both common sense and our requested policy. They recovered their hostage in secret, without coordinating either the recovery or the movement of the former hostage with U.S. forces. They attempted a movement at night, after the curfew. In these circumstances their vehicle was fired on by U.S. forces while it was still in motion, approaching a checkpoint.

Given all this, the focus on just what were the procedures in use by the U.S. soldiers is quite absurd.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:22 am
georgeob1 wrote:
The essential fact here is that the Italians paid a bribe or ransom to the terrorists who held their journalist.


"The Italian Government has never secured the freedom of Giuliana Sgrena or other hostages in return for money," Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini told state broadcaster RAI. This was reported in the media as well.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:24 am
Do you believe that Walter?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:25 am
Gelisgesti wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
You have a group of highly trained U.S. soldiers, all armed with high powered weapons and plenty of ammunition. If they had wanted the occupants of the car dead, they would be dead.

What would you have with a bunch of poorly trained gaurdsmen that were scared shitless?


Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't someone die in this incident? Are you saying that they did it on purpose since they never miss?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:27 am
Gelisgesti wrote:
Quote:
Breaking News: Government to Be Formed
Bombing at Shiite Mosque in Mosul Kills 36

It has been announced that the Shiites and the Kurds have reached sufficient agreement to elect a government when the parliament meets on March 16. If true, this is very big news. It wasn't, however, a headline anywhere I looked on the Web. When I tried to check it at CNN I was informed for about an hour straight that Michael Jackson was late to court. I mean, it is outrageous that our supposed 24 hours a day cable news services baby-sit us this way with pablum.

In other news, a suicide bomber detonated a payload at a Shiite mosque in northeastern Mosul during a funeral, killing at least 36 persons. Elements in the guerrilla movement have been attempting to provoke a civil war between Sunnis and Shiites, but the increasingly powerful Shiites have consistently refused to be provoked in this way.
Thu, Mar 10, 2005 6:33


Do you know who is going to be the PM or is that included in the elected government? (the different positions seem a little confusing to me)
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:31 am
georgeob1 - I think the ransom was paid from private funds of Italy's PM.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:31 am
georgeob1 wrote:
Do you believe that Walter?


Well, fact is, I can quote him, since he repeated that in parliament.

If this is a lie - like all the others - okay, I never liked the right government there.

If I quote you ("fact is ..."), I've got just A2K as source.
And: I really like you much more than the Italian government.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 08:39 am
Revel asks
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't someone die in this incident? Are you saying that they did it on purpose since they never miss?


No Revel, as I (and several others) have said several times now, the fact that all the occupants in the car are not dead is very good proof that the Americans did not intend to kill or harm them. If the intent had been to kill the occupants of the car, they would all be dead, and the Americans would not have taken the wounded to the hospital. If the U.S. solders had intentionally acted improperly, there would have been no 'witnesses'.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:13 am
Well I feel somewhat divided. I am glad to learn that Walter likes me better than at least some things. However, I don't hate the present Italian government - certainly not compared to their previous governments.


Walter is a very likeable guy - despite his left wing political leanings, and I fully forgive him for them. Similarly, while I find Berlisconi somewhat unsavory, I do like his political outlook.

I still think all the furor over the checkpoint incident is just a lot of sound and fury about nothing.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:30 am
In my opinion, one killed person is truely more than nothing.

Especially, when this happened just after he freed a hostage, and was done by allied friends.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:34 am
"Friendly fire" incidents are not all that uncommon. While this incident is certainly not "nothing," there is no reason to make it something it isn't. The investigation is ongoing.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Mar, 2005 09:38 am
Nobody is saying that a lost innocent life is not regrettable Walter. Nothing that George has posted even suggests that. The objectionable part is that some so desperately want the Americans to be guilty. I do not believe they were. I would appreciate your understanding the situation as it existed and why things like this happen in times of both peace and war.

Do you think the police officer does not grieve with much passion when he discovers that the attacker he shot was not armed? But until the attacker was shot, there was no way to know. Do you think the U.S. soldiers were delighted to learn that the occupants of that car were not terrorists, at least in the literal sense? What could you possibly base that impression on?
0 Replies
 
 

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