THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

Tico, Dys is right, you know.

But, yes, he is correct .... on that one point. :wink:

Back to a more substantive debate,
Did anyone else wonder how the blame for the Hariri assassination was laid on Syria so quickly? There seems to be some confusion as to what actually took place. It seems there is more to this than we origionally thought. Cycloptichorn

While it seems to you and the writer of the article that "there is more to this than we origionally thought," It sees to me this article was just another way of playing the Maybe Game.

In my opinion, suicide bomber drivers are recruited by those seeking to serve their own objectives by promising suicide bomber drivers a place in paradice. In my opinion, suicide bomber drivers aren't able to buy high explosives and trigger mechanisms, for prices they can afford, from the corner store. In my opinion, this article is an outstanding example of demagogic spin.

Who thought they would benefit most by murdering an ex-Lebanese government official? That is the real question? The question of whether the bomb was in a car or in a sewer reveals method but not who the sponsor of the murder is.

ican711nm wrote:

Who thought they would benefit most by murdering an ex-Lebanese government official? That is the real question? The question of whether the bomb was in a car or in a sewer reveals method but not who the sponsor of the murder is.

my comments are in blue

Hmm. It seems to me that there would be a LOT of people who could benefit from this - the US not being the smallest of them.
How do you imagine that the US would benefit by the murder of Rafik Hariri?
Why should we be off of the suspect list?
Why do you imagine we should be on the suspect list? Do you think it probable we had something to do with convincing a suicidal terrorist to commit suicide by perpetrating this murder?
Why is Syria automatically at the top, given that the assassination doesn't fit the pattern of how they do such things?
Why do you imagine this assassination doesn't fit the pattern of how the Syrian government does such things?
I'm not saying it wasn't Syria, but there should be at least some proof before people decide it WAS.
I agree that we should have some evidence before we decide it was Syria, or rather the Syrian government. Why do you imagine that we don't have some evidence that it was the Syrian government?Cycloptichorn

Interesting concept: Gather all the facts before forming a conclusion? Hmm.

How do you imagine that the US would benefit by the murder of Rafik Hariri?

Why do you imagine we should be on the suspect list? Do you think it probable we had something to do with convincing a suicidal terrorist to commit suicide by perpetrating this murder?

Why do you imagine this assassination doesn't fit the pattern of how the Syrian government does such things?

I agree that we should have some evidence before we decide it was Syria, or rather the Syrian government. Why do you imagine that we don't have some evidence that it was the Syrian government?

Reuters reports on the current status of the investigation into Hariri's death with this clarifying leak, courtesy of a Lebanese judge:

"Lebanon's investigations show that ex-Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri was almost certainly killed by a suicide car bomb, a judicial source close to the probe said on Friday. The source said results of the probe would be released next week. He expected them to show that a Muslim militant who had appeared in a video tape claiming responsibility for the attack was in the car that ripped through Hariri's motorcade in Beirut on Feb. 14. 'The attack happened when a car slowed up to allow Hariri's motorcade to pass it. As the motorcade passed it, the car blew up,' the source said. He said evidence came from a security camera at a nearby bank which caught parts of the incident. "

The "Syria did it" school of thought has suffered a huge blow from which it will never recover. A suicide bomber is not the usual method of assassination favored by state intelligence agencies, and, in any event, Syria's accusers - led by Walid Jumblatt, the Druze leader whose father "won" the 1972 Lenin Peace Prize - have constructed an entire conspiracy theory based on the supposition that the bomb was placed underneath the road, in a secret tunnel, and that therefore the Syrian secret police must have known about it and had some hand in it. They also theorized that Hariri's motorcade, which was equipped with jamming devices to stop a radio-controlled bomb from detonating, was blasted anyway because the Syrians utilized anti-jamming technology, which disabled the devices. Yet more "proof" of a Syrian conspiracy, they yelped. (By the way, the Iranians also made this assertion - and offered it as "proof" that the Mossad was behind the whole affair).

Baloney.

It turns out that no such tunnel exists, and, in any event, the bomb was not planted in the road. Not only was it a car bomb, but the identity of at least one of the assassins has been established: he is Ahmed Tayseer Abu Adas, a 24-year-old Palestinian refugee living in the poor Beirut neighborhood of Tarik Jadida. Adas disappeared around Jan. 15, and later showed up in a video broadcast by al-Jazeera claiming responsibility for the assassination on behalf of a previously unknown jihadist outfit, the Group for Advocacy and Holy War in the Levant. According to Reuters, "authorities did DNA tests on the remains of a body found at the scene to establish they belonged to Abu Adas."

In the mad rush to blame Syria, the casual brushing aside of a videotaped confession was no problem for Jumblatt, various self-appointed Lebanese "experts," and Israel's Likud government, which launched an international propaganda and diplomatic campaign to seize the chance to target Syria. But as the facts come out about the assassination, and the word "Jumblatt" becomes a synonym for bullsh*t - as in, "Don't Jumblatt me!" or "Oh, Jum-blatt!" - the feverish triumphalism of the War Party, which looks forward to "regime change" in Syria as well as Lebanon, is bound to subside. The reaction is already setting in, with the Shi'ite majority in Lebanon flexing its muscles and Hezbollah - Lebanon's largest political party - calling a rally in Beirut on Tuesday.

really tico it is interesting, and used to be most prominent among dems, I guess the repubs are able to outdo the dems on two fronts now. (1) deficit spending (2)drawing conclusions without facts. It's a strange world indeed. carry on.

So what IS the evidence that Syria did it?
Cycloptichorn

I have not encountered any expert opinion evidence that the Syrian government did or did not sponsor the assassination. Have you?

About Giuliana Sgrena

Mr. Harald Doornbos is a veteran war reporter. He is no archetypical hawk nor a staunch supporter of the United States. In fact, he used to be a reporter for the communist newspaper 'De Waarheid' (The Truth, or Pravda, if you like) before it went bust. (This doesn't necessarily mean he was ever a communist, by the way. De Waarheid used to be a huge employer.)

However, this doesn't make him overly sympathetic towards Giuliana Sgrena, the Italian journalist who was held hostage by Iraqi insurgents. Some snippets from this article which was published today in a Dutch Christian broadsheet.

'Be careful not to get kidnapped,' I told the female Italian journalist sitting next to me in the small plane that was headed for Baghdad. 'Oh no,' she said. 'That won't happen. We are siding with the oppressed Iraqi people. No Iraqi would kidnap us.'

It doesn't sound very nice to be critical of a fellow reporter. But Sgrena's attitude is a disgrace for journalism. Or didn't she tell me back in the plane that 'common journalists such as yourself' simply do not support the Iraqi people? 'The Americans are the biggest enemies of mankind,' the three women behind me had told me, for Sgrena travelled to Iraq with two Italian colleagues who hated the Americans as well.

(Doornbos goes on to explain how the women demeaned him for travelling as an embedded reporter with the US military, for security reasons. They didn't want to hear about any safety concerns.)

'You don't understand the situation. We are anti-imperialists, anti-capitalists, communists,' they said. The Iraqis only kidnap American sympathizers, the enemies of the Americans have nothing to fear.

(Doornbos tells them they're out of their mind.)

But they knew better. When we arrived at Baghdad Airport, I was waiting for a jeep from the American army to come pick me up. I saw one of the Italian women walking around crying. An Iraqi had stolen her computer and television equipment. They were standing outside shivering, waiting for a cab to take them to Baghdad.

With her bias Sgrena did not only jeopardize herself, but due to her behavior a security officer is now dead, and the Italian government (prime minister Berlusconi included) has had to spend millions of euros to save her life. It is to be hoped that Sgrena will decide to have a career change. Propagandist or MP perhaps. But she should give up journalism immediately.

Suggested correction to above: "Due to American soldiers mistakingly shooting him, a security officer is now dead."

May I help you a bit, Brand X?=

Since are are overlooking now even Dutch sites, this one collects dozens of blogs re. your special subject.

Quote:

I have not encountered any expert opinion evidence that the Syrian government did or did not sponsor the assassination. Have you?

Oh, so you want to argue over the definition of who is an expert and who isn't? I'm not going to bite. What evidence has anyone shown, expert or not, that Syria was behind it? Cycloptichorn

Suggested correction to above: "Due to American soldiers shooting him, a security officer is now dead."