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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:31 am
Another mystery:
Italian military officials said two other agents were wounded, but U.S. officials said it was only one.

However, Italy's Defense Ministry Antonio Martino said in a statement, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has promised an "aggressive" investigation.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:32 am
S0o, because the US doesn't approve of hostage negotiations, we would murder a freed hostage.

The reasoning is psychotic.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:36 am
Quote:
da "il manifesto" 05 March 2005

Life and Death

Gabriele Polo
A few minutes, that is how long our joy lasted. The time which goes from a phone call to another: the one telling us of Giuliana's freedom and the one which throws us into the killing of the person who more than anybody else worked to free her. Fifteen, maximum twenty minutes, the time to save one life and lose another. Within the absurdity of a war in which we all risk to get lost.
Sure, we are happy to be able to soon hug Giuliana, to be able to have her back with us, to go back and listen to and read her stories of peace. We owe it to what we have done in this very long month. All of us: we of il manifesto, the colleagues who helped us keep the attention on this abduction alive, the many people who with a phone call, a letter, or by coming to the streets kept the presence of our comrade alive even while she was forced to be silent. But we also owe it to those who worked night and day to find a contact with the kidnappers, to reach an agreement. People who are different from us, who speak a different language and uses different means. Yet with some of them we have been united with a common aim: to bring home a woman deprived of her freedom and to do it though a negotiation, not through those weapons which are the root of evil which for thirty days has taken Giuliana away from us. After those 15, 20 minutes of joy, last night we fell into a live drama. We are journalists and we must tell the story, but do not ask of us to be detached as a reporter should be.
It is not possible. Just as it was not possible to coldly separate the duty to report and comment from the worry for Giuliana's fate, from the fear she had fear, she was hungry, cold. When that second phone call arrived in a palace with high ceilings and wide spaces - so different from our daily working place -, we were there. And we will never be able to forget the pain of the colleagues of Nicola Calipari, how Gianni Letta was upset, even how the Prime Minister - whom we saw there and then for the first time - could not believe the news. We will never be able to forget the hectic calls, the chaos, the feeling of being lost by a place of power dealing with a power absolute and uncontrollable, the power of was, of who makes it and directs it. «Nicola died, Giuliana is wounded»: a bit crying, a bit asking for more details of the wound of Giuliana, knowing she was there, with the American guns pointing at her, bleeding who knows how, asking she would be brought immediately to the hospital. Then we heard the wound was not serious, only superficial on the shoulder, because the bullet which could have killed her had first gone through the body of Nicola Calipari. Who saved her. For the second time.
In those chaotic minutes, made of callls among ministries, generals, ambassadors - calls which all seemed pointless -- we witnessed impotence going on stage, the performance of war killing politics, chalking democracy. All our reasons - those of Giuliana - were confirmed. Yet we wanted it to be different. We wish we could hear another call, telling us it was all a mistake, nobody had died, Nicola magically had got up, maybe a bit hurt and together with our Giuliana he was going to the airport, to come back home. We would have hug them both and all that we had just witnessed would only have been a bad dream.
But no. That call never arrived. There has been another one, confirming everything: Nicola died, Giuliana and other two secret agents in the hospital. At that point, the only thing left to do was to leave, go back to the newspaper, tell everything to the comrades, explain that the joy was lost.
They taught us to be cold, to analyze the events, not to get involved too much, in order to understand what happens. And try to change it. Right. But he world is made of people. Facts, even history, are our product: at the end they are the product of bodies, flesh and blood. It all depends on us, on what we do. On what Giuliana Sgrena has done and will don, on what Nicola Calipari had done but will never be able to do. We got a comrade back. We lost someone who would have become our friend.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:40 am
Italian eyewitnesses' story differs significantly from American version of events:


Outrage as US soldiers kill hostage rescue hero

Bush promises Italian leader a full investigation

Philip Willan Rome
Sunday March 6, 2005
The Observer

The Italian journalist kidnapped in Iraq arrived back in Rome yesterday as fury and confusion grew over the circumstances in which she was shot and one of her rescuers was killed by American soldiers.
The shooting in Iraq on Friday evening, which occurred as Giuliana Sgrena was being driven to freedom after being released by her captors, was fuelling anti-war activists in Italy and putting pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.

'The hardest moment was when I saw the person who had saved me die in my arms,' she said. Her poignant words and weak, haggard appearance as she had to be helped from the jet that brought her back from Baghdad are fuelling national rage.

Berlusconi, a staunch ally of the US who defied widespread public opposition to the Iraq war and sent 3,000 troops, took the rare step of summoning US ambassador Mel Sembler to his office.

He demanded that the US 'leave no stone unturned' in investigating the incident. President George Bush called Berlusconi to promise a full investigation.

Sgrena, 56, a journalist for the Communist newspaper Il Manifesto, was hit in the shoulder when US soldiers opened fire on the car she was travelling in as it approached a checkpoint less than a mile from Baghdad airport. The Italian secret service officer who had negotiated her release was killed as he shielded her from the gunfire. Two of his colleagues were also hurt.

Berlusconi prides himself on his close personal friendship with President George Bush, but he was grim-faced when he told reporters that someone would have to take responsibility 'for such a grave incident'.

The US Army claimed the Italians' vehicle had been seen as a threat because it was travelling at speed and failed to stop at the checkpoint despite warning shots being fired by the soldiers. A State Department official in Washington said the Italians had failed to inform the military of Sgrena's release.

Italian reconstruction of the incident is significantly different. Sgrena told colleagues the vehicle was not travelling fast and had already passed several checkpoints on its way to the airport. The Americans shone a flashlight at the car and then fired between 300 and 400 bullets at if from an armoured vehicle. Rather than calling immediately for assistance for the wounded Italians, the soldiers' first move was to confiscate their weapons and mobile phones and they were prevented from resuming contact with Rome for more than an hour.

Enzo Bianco, the opposition head of the parliamentary committee that oversees Italy's secret services, described the American account as unbelievable. 'They talk of a car travelling at high speed, and that is not possible because there was heavy rain in Baghdad and you can't travel at speed on that road,' Bianco said. 'They speak of an order to stop, but we're not sure that happened.'

Pier Scolari, Sgrena's partner who flew to Baghdad to collect her, put an even more sinister construction on the events, suggesting in a television interview that Sgrena was the victim of a deliberate ambush. 'Giuliana may have received information which led to the soldiers not wanting her to leave Iraq alive,' he claimed.

Sgrena was kidnapped on 4 February as she interviewed refugees from Falluja near a Baghdad mosque. Two weeks later her captors issued a video of her weeping and pleading for help, calling on all foreigners to leave Iraq. Italian journalists were subsequently withdrawn from the city after intelligence warnings of a heightened threat to their safety.

Italian newspapers reported yesterday that Sgrena had been in the hands of former Saddam loyalists and criminals, and that a ransom of between £4 million and £5 million had been paid for her release. The military intelligence officer who lost his life, Nicola Calipari, 51, was hailed as a national hero.


http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1431436,00.html
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:42 am
Lash wrote:
Do you think the Americans tried to assassinate her?Yeah. We tried to kill her...

She's a communist who hates the US--as are her bosses.

I imagine if some lefties HERE experienced the same thing--they'd blame our troops as well. Ignominious.

She chose to buddy up with her captors, and trust THEM.

Vomitus.


Where did you read that "she's a communist" and "She chose to buddy up with her captors, and trust THEM."?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:54 am
Lash wrote:
S0o, because the US doesn't approve of hostage negotiations, we would murder a freed hostage.

The reasoning is psychotic.


I don't suppose, you'll give a different version of the "why" Laughing
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 11:00 am
Gelisgesti wrote:

Where did you read that "she's a communist" and "She chose to buddy up with her captors, and trust THEM."?


And may I ask, how you think - besides the questions above - how hostages should react in captivity, in Iraq or kidnapped elsewhere?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 11:06 am
I think it's a mistake to draw any conclusions from the shooting other than the obvious fact that in Iraq today one -- anyone -- runs a high risk of getting killed by US soldiers. It's quite possible the soldiers behaved appropriately in that if, as claimed, the car was speeding towards a checkpoint. Their actions are perfectly understandable in that context. Even if their actions weren't really justified, it's still the sad kind of screw-up that happens too often in a war zone.

Digressing to accusations of communism seems far beyond foolish.

What can we instead say about the final act of Nicola Calipari, who by accounts died while acting as a human shield for Giuliana Sgrena.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:00 pm
PDid, Good point; we often completely miss the human story in such a tragedy, and only the one that survives gets all the media coverage. Nicola Calipari was from what we know of the incident, a hero.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:03 pm
"I think it's a mistake to draw any conclusions from the shooting other than the obvious fact that in Iraq today one -- anyone -- runs a high risk of getting killed by US soldiers."

Is that what they are there for? Is that why we invaded, so that soldiers can go around shooting people at random?

The "Liberation" of Iraq, in reality the biggest smash and grab raid in history is the shame of our generation.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:09 pm
Front page of today's 'Il Manifesto'

http://www.ilmanifesto.it/oggi/prima.gif


La mia verita ("My truth")

The Italian government has not admitted the payment of any ransom, but Italian newspapers and one government minister have speculated unofficially that a large ransom may have been paid.
It is not yet clear if or when Sgrena or Italian authorities will take formal legal action against US authorities or personnel.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:18 pm
Was it an accident? A few months ago I would have said of course. But now, considering all that has gone on, I have to say I dont know.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:19 pm
Quote:
I think it's a mistake to draw any conclusions from the shooting other than the obvious fact that in Iraq today one -- anyone -- runs a high risk of getting killed by US soldiers. It's quite possible the soldiers behaved appropriately in that if, as claimed, the car was speeding towards a checkpoint. Their actions are perfectly understandable in that context. Even if their actions weren't really justified, it's still the sad kind of screw-up that happens too often in a war zone.


It's a matter of weighing possibilities.

On one hand, it's a giant FUBAR situation in which noone really is to blame but bad luck. On the other hand, we targetted and tried to kill a journalist who wrote anti-American writings.

I wonder how ol' Eason Jordan feels about this? If it happened two weeks ago, he might still have his job...

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we ordered the hit on this journalist; because those running this war are thugs and killers, thieves and crooks. This is how they operate, people, and it's the poor soldiers at the bottom following orders who are left to hang, every time....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:21 pm
Journalists who travel in war zones know the risks - or should know the risks involved.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:26 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Is that what they are there for? Is that why we invaded, so that soldiers can go around shooting people at random?


If it was on the "1000 Rationalizations" list Karl Rove revised and distributed daily until November 2, 2004, then I must have missed it...

Quote:
The "Liberation" of Iraq, in reality the biggest smash and grab raid in history is the shame of our generation.


Yes.

And nice to see you back, Steve.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:28 pm
Hi Piddie and thanks

Mctag said it was nice to see me

My question....where is the camera?

Smile
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:30 pm
Soldiers are known to kill their own in the heat of fire. Is it any wonder that innocents will also get killed?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:30 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Hi Piddie and thanks

Mctag said it was nice to see me

My question....where is the camera?

Smile


It's that little thing that looks like a green light on your monitor. Smile...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:31 pm
Lash wrote:
She's a communist who hates the US--as are her bosses.

I imagine if some lefties HERE experienced the same thing--they'd blame our troops as well. Ignominious.

She chose to buddy up with her captors, and trust THEM.

Vomitus.


Quote:
Giuliana Sgrena: 'Voice of weakest'

Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena never thought she would be taken hostage telling the story of the people she deeply cared for.


A toughened war correspondent, her reports filter the impact of conflict through the lives of ordinary people - precisely what she was doing in Baghdad on 4 February when she was seized by gunmen.

The former left-wing militant has often been described as an advocate of the dispossessed and the have-nots.

For my whole life, I have fought and written on behalf of the weakest
Giuliana Sgrena



She once said war correspondents "make known the reality which otherwise would just be described in official war bulletins and propaganda pamphlets".
And through the life-stories of individuals - in Iraq, Afghanistan, Algeria, the Horn of Africa and elsewhere - Sgrena built a long career that began long before she joined her current employers at the communist newspaper Il Manifesto in 1988.


Support for weakest

The daughter of a World War II veteran, Sgrena was one of the founders of the peace movement in the 1980s.

Before joining Il Manifesto, she worked for the daily Guerra e Pace (War and Peace), but she made her name at the communist newspaper mainly through her avowed affinity with the Arab world.

"For my whole life, I have fought and written on behalf of the weakest," she said in a video put together by those who campaigned to secure her release.


With this in mind, the reporter refused to become embedded with the US military during the war - choosing, instead, to remain in Iraq on her own during the major hostilities of the spring of 2003.
She then returned to the country periodically, focusing on the suffering of ordinary Iraqis brought about by a war she was vehemently opposed to.

In a telling story, she interviewed an Iraqi woman who said she was held at Abu Ghraib prison for 80 days by US forces.

Through Sgrena, Mithal al-Hassan said: "There were times when they didn't give me any water or food at all. Then, from the neighbouring cells I could hear the screams... There was no way you could sleep... I couldn't stand things any more. In the end I asked if I could write a note for my children, because I wanted to commit suicide."

Caged bird

Sgrena's outspoken anti-war stance should have endeared her to Iraqi insurgents fighting the US-led forces, said friends and colleagues shocked at her capture on 4 February.


Dear Giuliana, in the video you seemed to me like a caged bird, with your ruffled hair and your frightened look
Pier Scolari
Sgrena's partner


In a video pleading for her release days after being abducted, the war correspondent was on the verge of tears as she said: "Nobody should come to Iraq at this time. Not even journalists. Nobody."
The message - recorded under the guns of masked men - certainly clashed with her quest for "people and social classes that are not well known, in countries that are often forgotten, in order to describe the reality of their daily lives", said her partner, Pier Scolari.

After seeing the plea, Mr Scolari wrote to her through Il Manifesto encapsulating his feelings at the apparent transformation of his loved one.

"Dear Giuliana, in the video you seemed to me like a caged bird, with your ruffled hair and your frightened look," his message said.
Source
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:34 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Is it any wonder that innocents will also get killed?


No it isn't, and that's of course the point. Wars should be truly a last resort and shouldn't be waged based on exaggerated or fabricated intelligence.

It's such a shame this even has to be said. Once upon a time it was a self-evident truth.
0 Replies
 
 

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