THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

I don't think anyone really believes that Bush or Rove or whoever is in charge of those things didn't have a hand in it somewhere even if they're not telling. I mean sometimes you got to get real and get past the official word. Think about it, there is the President of United States getting on an air craft carrier after a big victory war all dressed up in his GI Joe suit and surrounded by all his minions and your telling me he didn't see that great big sign of "Misson Acomplished' up above his head or know it was going to be there ahead of time? These people know everything ahead of time, even Clinton's people did.

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The impression I got from old europe was he thought Bush proclaimed "Mission Accomplished." on May 2, 2003. That was the message hanging on a banner behind him, and I believe the official word is the banner was requested by the USS Lincoln. But I've also heard that Gen. Franks suggested it. The visit by Bush signified the end of major combat operations.

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Tico, it's a disgrace, seeing how you're trying to get out of this! I said:

old europe wrote:

on May 2, 2003 somebody said

Quote:
"Mission Accomplished."

that didn't happen either.

You said:

Ticomaya wrote:

If you didn't know what Bush meant when he said that, why talk about it?

And now you ask me

Ticomaya wrote:

You DO know he didn't utter those words, right?

... soooooo: who said "what Bush meant when he said that"? Me? Or you?

Nevertheless, I CAN tell you what Bush said when he was staging his macho show on May 2, 2003. Here are some samples:

Quote:

Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.

Operation Iraqi Freedom was carried out with a combination of precision and speed and boldness the enemy did not expect and the world had not seen before.

We have removed an ally of Al Qaida and cut off a source of terrorist funding.

We are working with a broad coalition of nations that understand the threat and our shared responsibility to meet it.

The use of force has been and remains our last resort.

We do not know the day of final victory, but we have seen the turning of the tide.

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You apparently didn't know what Bush said when you indicated somebody said "Mission Accomplished" on 5/2/03. I've pointed out several times now that Bush landed and announced the end of major combat operations. I'm suggesting you might not have understood that when he said that, he didn't say, "Mission Accomplished."

You now know with certainty what he said, and you have quoted from a portion of his speech that day. Now, with that in mind, which part of what Bush said that day .... "didn't happen either"?

old europe wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
During the run-up to the war, a number of generals-turned-talking heads predicted that tens of thousands of troops would die in the initial invasion. It didn't happen. The Baathists promised to send home American troops in body bags by the thousands...that didn't happen either.

and, on May 2, 2003 somebody said

Quote:
"Mission Accomplished."

that didn't happen either.

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Ticomaya wrote:

You apparently didn't know what Bush said when you indicated somebody said "Mission Accomplished" on 5/2/03.

Oh, come on... I've heard all that stuff before, and I thought it was ridiculous back then, and I still think it is.

Ticomaya wrote:

I've pointed out several times now that Bush landed and announced the end of major combat operations. I'm suggesting you might not have understood that when he said that, he didn't say, "Mission Accomplished."

Okay, maybe I haven't. Could you please define "end of major combat operations"?

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"End of major combat operations = Mission Accomplished." Could be wrong.

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Oh dear Olde Europe, that's easily enough to do.

Quote:

end of major combat operations

is defined as when the president lands in full uniform on the deck of an aircraft carrier and says it.

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Thanks, Dys! Should have been easy to figure out!

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End of major combat operations was true. It's not the same as mission accomplished.

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old europe wrote:

No. Everybody's responsible for the mess he creates.

No. If the US are willing to stay, no matter the death toll, I will accept it.

No. Neither was the invasion.

Yes, I believe freedom should be free. That doesn't free you from the responsibility of trying to maintain freedom and peace whenever possible.

Thank you for answering four of my five questions.

I asked those questions, because of a part of a re-broadcast of an interview on C-Span of a new book author that I heard this morning. The interviewer and the author discussed among other things problems the Democrats are having adjusting to what now appears to be the likely success the Iraqis are having establishing their democracy. The author repeatedly stated she continues to hope that the Iraqis will eventually fail and the opposition of the Democrats will be vindicated.

So much else of what she said matched the administration's critics in this forum that I decided to find out if the critics here hoped the same? I now infer from your answers to four of my five questions that you, old europe, do not hope the same.

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Lash wrote:

End of major combat operations was true. It's not the same as mission accomplished.

Military Deaths 3/19/03 - 5/1/03: 137

Military Deaths since 5/1/03: 1365

Military Deaths in combat since 5/1/03: 1049

Lash, maybe you could define what "End of major combat operations" means?

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When a big sign in the background says "Mission Accomplished" while the president mouthes the words, "end of major combat operations" most will put the two together - like it or not.

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Major combat operations involve large unit operations.

Things like airstrikes against multiple enemy positions, batallion and larger unit movement and operations, large scale destruction, missile strikes.

What has happened since "Mission accomplished" has been keeping the "peace". It involves small unit movement and precison air attacks (not that most of our airstrikes these days are not precison, but the tarvgetting is done from the ground instead of the air), police actions, things of that nature.

I am sure you understand the difference between major combat operations and minor combat operations, you are merely being combative.

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Lash wrote:

End of major combat operations was true. It's not the same as mission accomplished.

"Depends on what the definition of is, is."

Sometimes for all the GOP's griping of Clinton's word usages, I think they took notes and surpassed him.

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Two updates on Iraq, that i found anyway.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050303/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_050303182518

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1027-2005Mar2.html

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Interesting that the President could foresee what the future of Iraq held in terms of "keeping the peace." Wink

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and then you got your Major-Major as well as your Minor-Minor, pretty soon you don't know if your dead from Major or Minor. The whole issue of operations is another ball of wax, I once had an operation of my foot that was called Major but when I had an operation on my hand it was called Minor. When I got the bill it seemed both of them must have been Major.

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I still don't know whether I'd prefer to die a Minor Death or a Major Death....

Sad

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Old europe answered my questions! Now how about the rest of you persistent critics of the administration answering my questions?

Am I correct in inferring that you want the US to pull out of Iraq now?

Am I correct in inferring that you want the US to emulate the US's South Vietnam behavior, and desert the Iraqis people's quest for a democracy of their own design, and flee from Iraq now ?

Am I correct in inferring that you believe US desertion from Iraq is a necessary step toward solving the terrorist problem now ?

Are you one of those people who believes there should not be any cost to securing freedom, or, in other words, freedom should be free?

By The Way, are you one of those posting bad news articles and bad news cartoons in this forum who actually believes those articles are reliable descriptions of what is true?

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McGentrix wrote:

Major combat operations involve large unit operations.

Things like airstrikes against multiple enemy positions, batallion and larger unit movement and operations, large scale destruction, missile strikes.

What has happened since "Mission accomplished" has been keeping the "peace". It involves small unit movement and precison air attacks (not that most of our airstrikes these days are not precison, but the tarvgetting is done from the ground instead of the air), police actions, things of that nature.

I am sure you understand the difference between major combat operations and minor combat operations, you are merely being combative.

Tell that to the people of Falluga!

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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

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