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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:13 pm
Cyclo takes a "positive negtative" view of the situation in Iraq.

In reading his rather facile litany of "never should have"s, I was struck witsh some curiosity about just what actions he would have advocated at these junctures, and what might be their likely outcmes. However, those who habitually indulge in superficial and sweeping criticism only rarely take upon themselves the burden of thinking through any of the alternatives to that which they so blithely judge as defective.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:21 pm
Like this one?

Quote:
Thanks for the Brooking Insitute link, but all it really does is parrot the US gov't party line on how many insurgents there are, as the data is taken from gov't reports and interviews with gov't officials; there's no reason to believe the numbers given, as the gov't has a vested interest in under-reporting the number of active insurgents.


Obviously there is zero understanding of what the Brooking Institution is, who funds it, or the credentials of those doing information gathering and research.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:25 pm
Quote:
IRAQ: Focus on election campaigning

[ This report does not necessarily reflect the views of the United Nations]


BAGHDAD, 27 Jan 2005 (IRIN) - With only three days to go until Iraq's historic election, many people in the capital, Baghdad, say they don't have any idea of who they are going to vote for and have little information on what each party is offering.

This is mainly due to insecurity hampering election campaigns. It is also the first time a democratic election has been held in Iraq and the process of educating the population on this has been slow due to the situation in the country.

Officials from the electoral commission have responded by saying that with very little time left, it is now down to people themselves to search for more information.

Threats against campaigning politicians have led to a very slow dissemination of party manifestos and some candidates have stopped publicising their movements, especially in the capital, in fear of their lives.

"I was attacked with my friends when we were publishing our agenda posters on the streets of Baghdad. A car passed by and fired at us. There is no safety and sometimes even our families can be targets. We want to help the Iraqis to know more about elections but insurgents don't want that," Mahmoud al-Shirin, member of an Islamic party, told IRIN in Baghdad.

Candidates in Baghdad say their job has been difficult, particularly in recent days, especially after insurgents declared that they would be targeted.

Attacks have become more common in recent days. Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's political party headquarters in Baghdad were attacked on 24 January by a suicide bomber, injuring at least 10 people.

Farid Ayar, deputy for the Higher Independent Electoral Commission (HIEC) told IRIN that polling station locations would only be disclosed close to 30 January and security measures were being implemented. "We cannot do anything more to help them [candidates] with publicising political agendas. The elections are not long off and we have to take care of security first," Ayar added.

There are over 18,000 candidates on 256 political party lists running for a 275-member national assembly, according to the US State Department.

Most of the campaigning is being done in government offices, mosques and schools where candidates can expect at least minimum security and at the same time introduce themselves and their proposals.

The majority of manifestoes promise the same things: security, water, petrol, electricity, employment and peace.

Some 14 million people are eligible to vote in Iraq, but election officials told IRIN that they were expecting between 6 and 8 million to vote on the day.

Approximately 6,000 polling stations have been set up across the country and the election will be monitored by 25,000 Iraqis, according to the US State Department.

Kurdish parties campaigning in the capital have also received threats. Some have stopped work in central Iraq and are concentrating on attracting voters in the north where security is better. "I hope for Iraq to be a country without differences, but some people don't care about a democratic future,"
Diar Junsati, a senior member of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), told IRIN.

Junsati added that they have been working hard to mobilise the Kurdish vote for the national assembly and have their seats in the Baghdad government.

"Even between threats we will continue with our political agendas. We are talking about the future of a country that will go down in history," he added.

Iraq's Kurds have enjoyed autonomy in the north since the Gulf war in 1991. Now the two main Kurdish parties, the PUK and the Iraqi Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), who were opponents for more than a decade, have united for the election and will stand together to win as many seats as possible in the national assembly with a view to influencing the new constitution.

Voters in the capital say they want to see results. "I don't care about what they promise. The one thing I care about is who in the assembly will guarantee security and health for us, because we really need those two issues [resolved], but so far haven't decided who to vote for," Linda Ahmed, 37,a shopkeeper in the Mansour district of Baghdad, told IRIN.

At a press conference on Monday, Allawi said that the situation would be critical on the election day and acknowledged that most parties were afraid of campaigning for security reasons. But he added that risks needed to be taken in order to secure Iraq's future.

Despite reassurances, candidates and voters are still worried, as insurgent groups have said that attacks will take place on election day, especially at polling stations. The Al Quaeda-linked group led by Iraq's most-wanted man, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi group, has distributed leaflets threatening to behead people who vote.

"I wish to give my vote, but as election day becomes closer the security in the country is worse. God bless all Iraqis and make the insurgents understand that they are talking about lives of innocent people who just want to do their job," Sua'ad Finjen, 39, a mother of two, told IRIN.


[ENDS]
Source
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:27 pm
Cyclops, respect! Good postings.

I would not adgudge these criticisms "superficial". Pretty radical, actually, in the original meaning of "getting to the root of the matter."

As far as alternatives, the management of this business up to now has left us with very few., going forward.
Press on with the elections, try to stop people killing each other, and after the vote, pretend everything is fine.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:28 pm
Quote:
National Assembly speaker predicts 65% turnout for Sunday elections

By Faiz Jawad

Azzaman, 2005-01-27


The majority of Iraqis will head to the polls on January 30 despite calls for boycott and threats by insurgents, according to the speaker of the Transitional National Assembly.

"The turnout will be good and I expect participation in the general elections not to be less than 65% (of eligible voters)," said Fuad Maasoum.

Maasoum is the highest ranking Kurd in the interim Iraqi administration. His remarks regarding the elections come amid a surge in insurgent activity and violence across the country.

Maasoum did not say whether his optimistic forecast was based on any opinion polls conducted in the country recently.

He said he saw "a great many positive instances in the run-up to the elections in the forefront the satisfaction Iraqis have … as they deal with the new experiment (elections)," he said.

A recent opinion poll by a Baghdad University research center indicated that up to 70% of Iraqis will be willing to cast their votes if security conditions improve.


Maasoum rejected claims of massive rigging in the elections. "While rigging and fraud are there in any elections, it is very unlikely that they will be practiced on a scale that will influence the result in the country," he said.

He said for Iraqis it was the first time in many decades to have the chance to take part in democratic elections.

However, he said, he was "convinced" that the monitoring and supervision system currently in place would prevent "the occurrence of fraud that will upset the balance."

Asked whether the elections will still be legitimate despite the large-scale boycott, Maasoum said:

"For the elections to have legitimacy, it is not necessary for all Iraqis to take part in them. The most important point in a democracy is the freedom to vote or not."

But Maasoum said any new government should not ignore those who opt not to vote.

"The government that will be formed after the election must be a national government … It must give those how will boycott the elections a chance to discuss (issues) and take part in almost all political activities and give them a role in drafting the constitution," he said.
Source
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:29 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Dtom writes
Quote:
great ! will the hollywood righties be doing the same to help bring about democracy, freedom and liberty to the grateful iraqi people ?


There aren't enough Hollywood 'righties' to count I'm afraid.


actually foxy, you'd be surprised. i know quite a few. not names that you'd be likely to recognize for the most part, but there are a lot.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:31 pm
Quote:
Monitors too scared to visit Iraq polls

By Andrew Gilligan In Amman, Evening Standard

27 January 2005

Chaos at the heart of the Iraqi elections was revealed today - three days before the country goes to the polls.

The landmark elections are seen as critical to the American bid to bring democracy to the country.

But, with an expected turnout of only one third of voters, they face a string of problems. There has been no campaigning because of security fears - so most candidates are anonymous - and the location of polling stations is being kept secret until the last minute, meaning voters are unlikely to know where to go.

Now the Evening Standard has learned that international election monitors are so fearful of their safety most will not even be in the country they are meant to be scrutinising.

The men and women of the International Mission for Iraqi Elections (IMIE) will not be visiting a single Iraqi polling station, nor meeting a single Iraqi voter. They will pronounce on the election's freedom and fairness from a five-star hotel in Amman, capital of neighbouring Jordan, nearly 1,000 miles west of Baghdad.

International observers are considered vital in all countries moving from tyranny to free voting. In Ukraine, they helped alert the world when the ruling party tried to steal the election. Earlier this month, 800 international monitors scrutinised the election of a successor to Yasser Arafat as Palestinian president.

In Afghanistan 120 international observers were deployed, adding to that poll's credibility. But Iraq is so dangerous for foreigners that of the 50 or so IMIE staff, only three will be in the country on polling day. Even they are unlikely to leave the HQ of Iraq's election commission inside Baghdad's secure Green Zone. Jean-Pierre Kingsley, chairman of the IMIE steering committee, the only member of the monitoring body to be publicly identified, said: "Our mission will be accomplished to the fullest extent possible in the evolving circumstances.

"While the IMIE recognises that it would be desirable to have larger numbers of international observers at polling locations throughout Iraq, we respect that the priority of security forces must be to safeguard Iraqi voters, candidates and electoral staff."

Rick, another IMIE official who asked that his surname not be used, said: "In terms of looking at the actual polling we'll be doing what everybody else is doing - relying on the Iraqis. We have numerous sources inside Iraq with whom we will be in minute-by-minute contact." The IMIE includes experts from nine countries but not one is from an Arab nation.


Source
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:32 pm
Fortunately, I have taken said burden upon myself to think of alternatives, and I'm far from the only one. But let's go line-by-line just for fun:

Quote:
We never should have gone to war in Iraq in the first place


Self-explanatory. The contradictory evidence to the claims of WMD which were used to justify the war should have been examined in greater detail. The UN weapons inspectors who claimed there were no WMD in Iraq should have been given more time. Overall, we should have been more cautious before rushing into things; and myself and many like me were saying so at the time.

Quote:
we never should have disbanded the Iraqi army


Yeah, this was just a dumb move. Iraq was already experiencing unemployment problems due to the war, so we take a few dozen thousand trained troops and tell them they are fired. Then we spend huge amounts of money to train NEW troops up. Right. The overwhelming body of thought is against this decision.

Quote:
we never should have paid enormous sums to American companies to do work in Iraq


This is the crux of many of our problems in Iraq today. Instead of copying our previous successes in rebuilding Germany and Japan using a huge amount of local labor and organization, we have decided that the profits from this war rebuilding should all go to American companies.

This stirs up a lot of discontent in Iraq, as the US gov't seems to be doing more to help rich stockholders in the US than the Iraqi people themselves. Unemployment in Iraq has at times over the last year been as high as 60% of the populace; a man who has nothing to do will turn to trouble eventually. When this unemployed Iraqi, who had a job before we came, sees a group of contractors going by (who are getting paid 200k to do the same things the Iraqi would do for 30k) what do you think goes through his mind?

We easily could have set up a system which puts Iraqis themselves to work rebuilding their own society, but we chose not to in order to give higher profits to American companies. This has built a lot of resentment amongst the populace.

Quote:
we never should have snubbed the rest of the world when it came to Iraq;


Self-explanatory; alienating those who we desperately need as allies, as well as potential trade and investment opportunities which have been soured by popular world dissent to our imperialism.

Quote:
we never should have put idiots in charge of rebuilding the infrastructure of Iraq;


Once again, self-explanatory. Give me a day or so and I'll track down a few stories on the 20-something college graduates which were handed the reigns to the Iraqi economy and screwed it up immensly, to the tune of billions of dollars simply 'lost.'

Quote:
we should have seen the insurgency coming


I know I did. Those that predicted the 'open arms of Iraqis strewing flowers' were and are fools who know nothing about psychology or sociology.

Quote:
we should have used adequate numbers of troops


Once again self-explanatory. Those who insisted we needed more troops at the beginning of the war were either ignored or fired. The idea that one could effectively control a semi-hostile population of over 25 million with less than 150k troops is idiotic. The failure of the admin. to adjust to this obvious fact is one of the biggest marks against them.

We should have waited for more international support by simply delaying our start of the war until weapons inspections could have been completed, or not gone to war at all based upon the (assuredly) negative results which those inspections would have come up with. There was no reason for the haste we displayed, and it is costing us now.

Quote:
we shouldn't be torturing men and children who are innocent in Abu Ghraib.


I'd like to hear someone argue for this one. No argument is needed on my end on how it should have been different; just a little f*cking decency.



I highly doubt that making ANY of those changes would have lead to the deaths of MORE people, or made things worse in Iraq in any way.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:37 pm
This will be certainly one of the strangest elections to date: anonymous candidates, no invigilators, polling stations location secret until last minute, no electricity to power TV to inform people, fear of sudden death.... Who will count the votes? Who will check the checkers? Who dares give his name?
Very strange.
My best thoughts are with these poor buggers.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:39 pm
Yeah, it's not an election at all. It's a joke.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Yeah, it's not an election at all. It's a joke.

Cycloptichorn
By all estimates; a greater percentage of Iraqis than U.S. Americans will risk their lives to participate in this "joke". Your larger submissions are scroll-pasts but this little one caught my eye and is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:56 pm
McTag wrote:
This will be certainly one of the strangest elections to date: anonymous candidates, no invigilators, polling stations location secret until last minute,


sounds more like a rave than an election.

hope they can pull it off though.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:56 pm
Come to think of it how are they to count the votes of the unknown candidate? I get an image of a man in a chair with a paper bag on his head, telling bad jokes followed with chuckie chuckie chuckie.

(gong show)
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 03:04 pm
What do you want to bet there will be names to vote for when the people vote? I am in awe of all of you who keep buying the idiotic charges of the naysayers.

On the subject of Hollywood 'righties', DTOM wrote:
Quote:
actually foxy, you'd be surprised. i know quite a few. not names that you'd be likely to recognize for the most part, but there are a lot.


I'm sure you're probably right. The 'righties' are mostly scorned by the Hollywood elite, don't get Golden Globe or Oscar nominations, and are generally mostly ignored by the left-tilted media unless they can be shown in a critical light. They get quoted if they do say something that is critical of a Republica but otherwise are pretty invisible. But they probably won't be invited to join the photo-op group going to Iraq either (if they in fact actually do go.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 03:07 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
What do you want to bet there will be names to vote for when the people vote?


Well, that should be known by now, since polls opened to expatriate Iraqis in Australia at 7:00 AM local time on Friday, January 28. :wink:
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 03:13 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
What do you want to bet there will be names to vote for when the people vote? I am in awe of all of you who keep buying the idiotic charges of the naysayers.

On the subject of Hollywood 'righties', DTOM wrote:
Quote:
actually foxy, you'd be surprised. i know quite a few. not names that you'd be likely to recognize for the most part, but there are a lot.


I'm sure you're probably right. The 'righties' are mostly scorned by the Hollywood elite, don't get Golden Globe or Oscar nominations, and are generally mostly ignored by the left-tilted media unless they can be shown in a critical light. They get quoted if they do say something that is critical of a Republica but otherwise are pretty invisible. But they probably won't be invited to join the photo-op group going to Iraq either (if they in fact actually do go.)


the hollywood elite, as you say... oh, never mind. i'm gonna just walk passed that one. :wink:

now couldn't the hollywood right put together their own trip ? why wait to be asked by the lefties.

and if, if, they do, will you call that a "photo op"?
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 03:18 pm
the way elections are usually run, the candidates are known well in advance of the polls and they state what their respective platforms are. how are the voters to make their choices of the candidates if their platforms(what they stand for) are not known to the voters ? how can voters question the candidates about their platforms and policies ? i do hope that the iraqui people will get the peace and the government they are entitled to, but i really have difficulty understanding how this election is going to work. well, we'll all pretty soon know what happened. hbg
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 03:20 pm
It is known to all that keeping the names of the candidates secret until election day is unorthodox and far from ideal, it is also obvious that the terrorists are systematically attempting to exterminate anybody associated with the present temporary or future government. So for security reasons it is necessary.

Once they get rid of the murdering thugs who do not want democracy in Iraq, they can move to a more conventional election process.

Excerpted
Quote:
BAGHDAD - Secret ballots are the cornerstone of any democratic process. But little more than two weeks before Iraq's first free elections on Jan. 30, the country is finding that secrecy is being taken to new heights.

The identities of many of the candidates haven't been publicly disclosed and are likely to remain secret until after election day, an illustration of the difficulty in mounting an election amid war.

"Not having the candidates' names known is far from ideal for an election, but I think we can all understand the fears over their safety,'' says a foreign election adviser. "Security is a very big issue for all candidates."

Instead of voting for individual candidates in the election to fill the transitional national assembly, Iraqis will select from a list of 111 political parties, each with its own lengthy slate of candidates that can include between 12 and 275 names.

Seats will be allocated to party lists as a proportion of the total national vote, so if all Iraq's estimated 16 million voters part- icipate, a list will get one parliamentary seat for every 58,000 votes it receives. At least 25 percent of the candidates on each list must be women, though there are only a handful of politically prominent women in the country.

Candidates' identities are not the only remaining secret in the election. To help prevent them from being attacked, the location of polling places will not be released until about a week before the election. Party platforms also seem to be kept secret. Campaigning has also been limited, with almost no mass campaign events or rallies. A recent survey indicates that most Iraqi voters are unaware of the party lists' political platforms.


http://www.rense.com/general61/SECREC.HTM
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 03:28 pm
Dtom writes
Quote:
and if, if, they do, will you call that a "photo op"?


To the best of my knowledge I don't think the 'righties' are organized as a political activist organization as the 'lefties' are. And I think you have to agree they appear to be in a distinct minority in Hollywood.

My opinion as to why the 'lefties' would go to Iraq is based purely on the rhetoric I've heard from them for the last decade or two or three, and, if they in fact intend to put themselves in harm's way for the benefit of the Iraqi people, I will give them full credit for their efforts and eat my proper portion of humble pie. But in the face of morter fire, rockets, and car bombs, doesn't the concept of 'human shields' at the polls run a little hollow?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 03:34 pm
The list of the candidates has been released - otherwise, the election really would be a farce, since most parties have no (published) program neither.
0 Replies
 
 

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