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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 08:56 pm
JW, we observe the GC in Iraq.

Also it is not only democrats that question the lowering of standards regarding detainees.

Not all those that are or were in our custody were even guilty of anything and had to be let go after a year or so. Some were never even charged for lack of evidence. That means that an awful lot of people were subject to torture because of someone else's actions that they had no part in.

I guess it comes down for everybody if they believe that the end justifies any means. I don't believe that it does.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 09:10 pm
JustWonders wrote:
Quote:
This post is from an Iraqi blogger....I can ce neither confirm or deny it's accuracy ..Raed has been a reliable source in the pasat.


There are 572 comments listed under that "blogger's" post, not many of them complimentary.

Here is but one example:

"I wonder if Raed actually believes in the use of Chem by Americans. If you've followed he and his brothers posts for some time, you really began to see a pattern with these two. Either they are putting up an incredibly believable front of ignorance, or, they actually believe the stuff they throw out there. Or perhaps they are just very adept propogandists for the Sunni Baathists"

---------------------------------------------

I take it from your posting that you believe the United States military is guilty of gassing Iraqis in Fallujah?


If you actually took time to read all his post going back to before the start of the war then you would know. Try a clusty on 'salampax'. Get informed .... then lash out.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 09:42 pm
It sruck me that you may not know what a clusty is ...... type in 'clusty' and press enter
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 09:57 pm
Look out Gel I think they're on to you! Shocked

http://www.specialoperations.com/Aviation/Little_Birds/littlebird2.jpg[size=7]
And they still have some of those chemicals left...[/size]
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:09 pm
57 year old with 5 bypass surgeries and parkinson ..... what the fgck would they want with me?
Get a grip will ya!!
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:13 pm
Just because we observe the Geneva Conventions in Iraq does not mean they apply to the enemy combatants.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 10:49 pm
D., she is on to you (Aphrodite, that is) and wants to carry off you and your shrewdness, wisdom, and wit. Get on that ship, Buddy....
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 02:39 am
A person tolerating other persons encamping on/in his/her property isn't necessarily harboring those other persons. Saddam allegedly tolerating Ansar al-Islam isn't Saddam harboring Ansar al-Islam, because Saddam had no control over the area of Iraq Ansar al-Islam was encamped.

The US said it asked Saddam to extradite Zarqawi and provide information about him and his close associates. The US also said it demanded that Saddam disarm of WMD. The US saying it asked Saddam to extradite Zarqawi isn't evidence that Saddam harbored Zarqawi like the US saying it demanded that Saddam disarm of WMD isn't evidence that Saddam had WMD.

Colin Powell said a lot of things in his UN speech. None of them have been verified. Colin Powell's credibility, to say the very least, is lacking.

Why do you think the 9/11 commission makes absolutely no mention of al-Zarqawi, ican?

The only "evidence" you have, ican, of Saddam harboring "al Qaeda" are Powell's discredited UN speech, and the 9/11 commission's phrases "indications of tolerance" and "may even have helped."

These phrases are unfounded allegations, nothing more.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 07:53 am
The next (new) European country to retreat its troops:

Quote:
Dutch troops to leave Iraq mid-March


Prime Minister confirms 1,400 Dutch soldiers deployed to Iraq will leave it on March 15 despite US pressure.


THE HAGUE - The Netherlands will pull its soldiers out of Iraq on March 15, Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende confirmed after meeting Monday with his foreign and defense ministers Ben Bot and Henk Kamp.

"During the meeting, the prime minister confirmed that the government will stand by its previous decision to end the Dutch military presence in Iraq on March 15," said Henk Brons, a spokesman for the prime minister.

The decision was made despite pressure from the United States and two center-right parties in The Netherlands' ruling coalition which advocated keeping the troops in Iraq longer.

The Netherlands deployed around 1,400 soldiers to Iraq shortly after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime last March.

They have been serving under British command in the southern province of Al-Muthanna.
Source


An hour earlier, Expatica published:
Quote:
Cabinet considers keeping
Dutch troops in Iraq longer
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 11:05 am
Here comes theocracy ....

Quote:

Informed Comment

Thoughts on the Middle East, History, and Religion Juan Cole is Professor of History at the University of Michigan
1. Al-Abbudi: Sistani Endorses the United Iraqi Allia...
Al-Abbudi: Sistani Endorses the United Iraqi Alliance

Al-Zaman reports via AFP that Shaikh Naji al-Abbudi, a representative of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, spoke at a conference on the upcoming elections in the southern Shiite city of Diwaniyah on Sunday, and said something that is explosive if it is true. He alleged that Sistani is throwing his support to the slate of the United Iraqi Alliance, which is led by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim (the party head of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq). At the close of the conference, al-Abbudi said in an address to 1500 clerics and clan heads that Sistani wants the elections held on schedule and that he affirms his support of Slate 169, the United Iraqi Alliance (UIA). He explained that Sistani supports this slate because of its Islamic coloration and the ability of its leaders to move the country toward a better future. Al-Abbudi said that Sistani wanted to safeguard the name of Islam.

He continued that this slate had confronted a virtual war on it only because it contains all the major tendencies and groups in Iraqi society. When Sistani discovered that the other slates were using television, newspapers, and international media to do election campaigning, he therefore called clearly for support for the UIA. [Implied is that Sistani hopes his moral authority will outweigh the slick advertising and media press conferences of rival politicians such as interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.]

I am suspicious of this report. It is not like Sistani to endorse a particular party, though he certainly hasn't objected it it using his name and likeness in campaign posters. If al-Abbud is correct, it means that Sistani is really worried that Shiites won't get the message to vote for the UIA by any more subtle means, and felt he had to actively endorse it. Sistani's prestige is enormous, and if Shiites in the South think he wants them to vote for the UIA, most of them will.

The UIA candidates continue to face severe danger. Al-Hakim narrowly missed being assassinated recently.

Sally Buzbee of AP reports that guerrillas wearing police uniforms staged an ambush Sunday in downtown Baghdad on Salama al-Khafaji. She escaped injury thanks to quick action by her bodyguards. Al-Khafaji, a highly conservative Shiite female politician from Karbala, had served on the US-appointed Interim Governing Council and is now running for parliament on the United Iraqi Alliance slate put together under the auspices of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani. This is the second attempt on her life this year.

Guerrillas targeted schools scheduled to be used as polling places, hitting one with mortar fire at Mosul, and for others in the far south at Basra. Even in central Iraq south of Baghdad, much of which is Shiite, election workers are receiving death threats, according to AP, which quoted a US embassy official in Hillah.

Sistani's prominence also puts his aides at risk. Ali al-Khatib, son of Sheikh Habib al-Khatib (the representative of Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani in Wasit) was shot down in an internet cafe in Naaman on Sunday. His father had survived an assassination attempt two months ago.

Al-Zaman reports that the nephew of Ayatollah Hussein al-Sadr of Kadhimayn was wounded and one of his chiefs of security--Jasim Muhammad al-Saadi-- was killed on Saturday. Ayatollah Hussein al-Sadr is the uncle of Muqtada al-Sadr but is pro-American and relatively liberal, unlike the populist, radical Muqtada. Hussein al-Sadr is supporting the list of interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, and his bodyguards and nephew were out putting up posters for his "Iraqiyyah" slate (Allawi's party was the Iraqi National Accord, but not all the Iraqiyyah candidates are INA). Then they were attacked.

Hussein al-Sadr's spokesman implied that the incident occured because they strayed into the turf of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq. They came near the house of Bayan Jabr, a leader of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) who had earlier served as Minister of Housing. The nephew and the bodyguards appear to have realized that they were in hostile territory, and tried to withdraw, but the effort was met with a hail of bullets. (It is implied but not explicitly said in the piece that Badr Corps fighters fired the shots; the Badr Corps is the paramilitary arm of SCIRI). Hussein al-Sadr is among those who have complained lately that the United Iraqi Alliance is using Sistani's name and likeness in its campaigning.

Although it is not clear that radical young Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr supports the UIA, it is clear that he deeply dislikes Iyad Allawi, and it seems to me that he is trying to make trouble for Allawi's slate. Long lines for Iraqi motorists wanting to buy gasoline have become routine. The Sadr movement tried to make it a political issue on Sunday. Hundreds of followers of Muqtada al-Sadr began a 3-day sit-in at the Minister of Petroleum in Baghdad to protest gasoline shortages. AP says that "About a dozen entered the ministry and complained to Minister Thamir Ghadbhan, asking why U.S. troops have fuel for their vehicles and Iraqis do not." AFP reports that "thousands" of Sadrists staged similar protests in the Shiite areas on Sunday.

Al-Hayat says that the protesters carried posters saying that "The government of Allawi is a continuation of the dictatorial government of Saddam" and demanded a return of normal electricity service and an end to the fuel crisis.

The protesters also alleged that the shortages of water, electricity and fuel were a deliberate policy of the US, the UK and Israel to keep Iraqis down.
Mon, Jan 17, 2005 0:34
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 11:37 am
What I find odd is that there are so many polling places in the United States for out of country Iraqi's. Given that we haven't exactly been a beacon for efficient and fair elections lately, I wonder about the integrity of Iraqi polling places that are in the US on election day for Iraq.

I bet there will be more people voting out of Iraq than in Iraq.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:06 pm
revel wrote:
What I find odd is that there are so many polling places in the United States for out of country Iraqi's. Given that we haven't exactly been a beacon for efficient and fair elections lately, I wonder about the integrity of Iraqi polling places that are in the US on election day for Iraq.
Shocked WTF are you babbling about now? Do you even know?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:13 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Shocked WTF are you babbling about now? Do you even know?


I'm sure, you do:

some 2 million Iraqis are believed to be living in the 14 [Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany, Iran, Jordan, the Netherlands, Sweden, Syria, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, the U.K. and the U.S] countries concerned, with perhaps as many as 1 million expected to vote.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:21 pm
Some in the U.S. may have to do some real traveling. There are only five cities with designated polling places - Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, Washington and Nashville.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:24 pm
My complaint was in the sore-loser backhanded implication that there was something wrong with our last election because some whiners didn't like the results. I can't tell you how sick I am of unsubstantiated BS charges being hurled at the United States by citizens who claim to love her, yet take any and allÂ… hell even invent extra reasons to tarnish her name.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:31 pm
JustWonders wrote:
Some in the U.S. may have to do some real traveling. There are only five cities with designated polling places - Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, Washington and Nashville.


Right - I just saw people queueing up in Cologne (we've got only 3 polling stations for our 300,000 possible voters).
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:37 pm
O'Bill.........I agree. But even some of the idiocy we see passed off as honest debate here is protected under our Consitution. While we have to (and I guess ought to) allow it, it doesn't mean we have to allow it to pass unchallenged. Soooooooooo......THANK GOD FOR ICAN SmileSmile

ican711nm wrote:
Attention Bush-whacker-we-cannots!
There are now 14 million registered Iraqi voters.
Outstanding!

Corection! 12,707,500 or more Iraqis will vote.
Astonishing!
After they vote, there will be
[/b]
Corection! 12,707,500 or more Iraqi Patrick Henrys.
Quote:
give me liberty, or give me death!"

You can count on it!
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:56 pm
Yes, but how many of those are registered in Iraq?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:58 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
My complaint was in the sore-loser backhanded implication that there was something wrong with our last election because some whiners didn't like the results. I can't tell you how sick I am of unsubstantiated BS charges being hurled at the United States by citizens who claim to love her, yet take any and allÂ… hell even invent extra reasons to tarnish her name.


I was thinking of the Ohio trouble of which a majority of the complainers have been republican and the last election of which we had so much trouble in florida.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2005 12:59 pm
According to the CIA World Fact Book, over 10 million of Iraq's 25 million people are age 14 or under so I'm guessing the number of registered voters represents pretty much all of the eligible voters. I, for one, will be surprised not at all if Iraq shows a higher percentage of eligible voters turning out than the United States did in our most recent election. Do you think that will end the doubt about whether or not Iraqis desire democracy? I doubt it. The so-called liberals seem to have convinced themselves that they'd prefer to be slaves to a dictator.
0 Replies
 
 

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