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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2004 03:45 pm
Hey anybody who thinks 9/11 was 'allowed to happen" has to have a sense of humor.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2004 09:01 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Right Axis. Wrong Evil.
July 22, 2004
By MAUREEN DOWD

...

Besides excoriating the C.I.A. and F.B.I. and chronicling
as many as 10 missed opportunities to pick up on the 9/11
plot - in the Bush years and in the Clinton era - the 9/11
commission report has new evidence that Iran may have
helped up to 10 of the hijackers with safe passage from
Osama's Afghan training camps.


Up to 10 Shocked Let's see, 10/19 x 3000 = 1578.9

cicerone imposter wrote:
Right Axis. Wrong Evil.
July 22, 2004
By MAUREEN DOWD
...

The report concludes that "Al Qaeda's relationship with
Iran and its client, the Hezbollah militant group, was far
deeper and more longstanding than its links with Iraq,"
according to The Washington Post.


Quote:
... far deeper and more longstanding than its links with Iraq
Shocked

I guess that means there were some links between Osama and Saddam. Rolling Eyes

Check your geography: Afghanistan is on one side of Iran and Iraq is on the opposite side.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2004 09:03 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Hey anybody who thinks 9/11 was 'allowed to happen" has to have a sense of humor.


Either that or they are dumb as a post. Laughing
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2004 09:07 pm
Why? There's really no conceivable way they weren't expecting something.
If that something then helped get their agenda pushed through, why fight it? Bush did refer to it as his trifecta, remember. It won't be the first time in American history that the government has turned a blind eye.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 01:59 pm
Our efficient government at work.
***************************
http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/FightSmart18-11-2001.htm
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 02:25 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Hey anybody who thinks 9/11 was 'allowed to happen" has to have a sense of humor.


Either that or they are dumb as a post. Laughing


Ican, you are proud of your intellect. Use it, and take the blinkers off.

Susy has made the point. They were expecting something, but the defences, even the responses, were disabled.
The strike was an immense help to them in promoting the pre-existing plan to invade Iraq. Hell, Bush even admitted this.

I don't think they were expecting the buildings to fall down, though. That wasn't supposed to happen.

Why did Bush stay away from NYC for so long, leaving the headlines and the leadership to Mayor Giuliani? Incompetence? Confusion? Or guilt?

If you see Fahrenheit 9/11 (which I recommend you do) and watch the leader of the free world as he sits in the junior class, immobilised, you will not be so ready to discount the idea that it was guilt.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 02:35 pm
McTag
Guilt no, confusion and stupidity yes.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 03:26 pm
Well, based on your theories, if anybody 'allowed' 9/11 to happen then, it was the Clinton administration. They were offered Bin Laden four times and refused the offer four times according to the 9/11 report. Now if we on the right don't "blame" the Clinton administration for 9/11, as there is no way they could have foreseen the result of their decisions during their eight years, you guys are going to insist that Bush should have seen and intercepted the attack in the eight months he had?

Yeah, Ican is right. Anybody who really believes that has to be dumb as a post. Those who throw that kind of mud hoping something will stick are just blindly partisan.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 04:03 pm
McTag wrote:
Susy has made the point. They were expecting something, but the defences, even the responses, were disabled.
The strike was an immense help to them in promoting the pre-existing plan to invade Iraq. Hell, Bush even admitted this.


Yes, some of us were expecting something. What we were expecting differed markedly among us. Many of us inferred from Osama's multiple declarations of war against America that he would escalate his war with each terrorist attack, enlisting the aid of whatever tyrants he could convince to provide sanctuary for his budding world army. Some of us, like me, who fly airplanes assumed he would get his believers to hijack business jets and turn them into missles to kill as many people as he could. While the possibility of hijacking airliners occurred to us, we assumed that the hijacking of a business jet or two would precede hijacking of airliners, because hijacking a business jet would probably prove to be a lot easier. Whataweknow?

Yes our intelligence and our defenses were in some cases disabled and in others inoperative. To blame all that on Bush is just plain dumb. Bush was president a little over eight months and the brain-challenged members of the human race assign to Bush a personal appreciation for 9/11. Clinton, in 96 months had multiple opportunities to provide his successor with fully operative intelligence and defense capabilities, but failed miserably. Clinton infact contributed significantly to the decline of our intelligence and defense capabilities.

Well I can play the dumb-paranoia game too, but with greater creativity. So here I go!

Clinton anticipated that Gore would lose the election to any Republican with a heartbeat. He chose Gore as his vice president deliberately, seeking to undermine the Democrats after he retired, lest another Democrat besides Hillary were ever to be elected while he were still alive. Gore, Clinton learned from reading Gore's mindless treatise, "Earth in the Balance", wherein Gore's speculative conclusions at the end of each chapter became the basis of the speculations in the subsequent chapter, was the perfect fall guy to achieve Clinton's ends. Even if Gore were to actually be elected, Clinton realized that his performance (equiped with vacuous intelligence and Wiley Willy's sabotage) would have been so bad as to make Hillary by contrast look like a godsent benevolence.

However, everything went according to plan. Bush was elected instead, and, sabotaged by Clinton as he was, Clinton was convinced that Bush's failure would lead to Hillary in the White House by 2005 or at the latest 2009. With Hammer Hilly in the White House (and perhaps Wilely Willy as her Vice President) for eight years, it would be relatively easy to perform a peaceful regime change and replacement of the government of the US with a government run by the European Union using the UN as a convenient cover. That would ensure Wiley Willy's subsequent appointment to Caesar of the Western World.

A few years later, that would all evolve to Wilely Willy Caesar of the entire World, with Clinton's legitimate daughter, Chelsey, ultimately replacing Wilely Willy himself. Along the way. Hammer Hilly increasingly resentful of Wiley Willy would mastermind a failed plot to kill Wilely Willy but end up killing herself when she seeking to take furniture to heavy for her to carry from the White House, she slipped and fell down one of the White House's basement stair cases..
Laughing


McTag wrote:
I don't think they were expecting the buildings to fall down, though. That wasn't supposed to happen.

Why did Bush stay away from NYC for so long, leaving the headlines and the leadership to Mayor Giuliani? Incompetence? Confusion? Or guilt?


Because he preferred the smell of barbecue to the smell of bagels!

McTag wrote:
If you see Fahrenheit 9/11 (which I recommend you do) and watch the leader of the free world as he sits in the junior class, immobilised, you will not be so ready to discount the idea that it was guilt.


I recommend everyone also see "Fahrenheit 451." It too is a work of fiction, but it represents an interesting prediction of the nature of human life on earth if too many watch Fahrenheit 9/11. Sad
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 04:09 pm
Hmmm... What was the title of that report Condi was forced to acknowledge to the commission?

"I hit the trifecta" he said with a smile.

Good link, CI. I read something about Atta recently, in the same vein.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 08:31 pm
How about this? How many think if they do this, it will increase Iraq's chances for success by a whole big bunch?

Quote:
Iraq says satellite channels incite violence


DUBAI, July 25 (Reuters) - Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari accused regional satellite channels of inciting violence and hinted Iraq might stop Al Jazeera operating in the country.

"Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya, al-Manar and al-Alam have all become channels of incitement and opposed to the interests, security and stability of the Iraqi people," Zebari told Al Jazeera television.

"There is strong talk from some Iraqi government officials about closing Al Jazeera. Unfortunately it is being manipulated by terrorist groups and we will not tolerate this biased coverage," he said.

Al Manar, is owned by Lebanese guerrilla group Hizbollah, al-Alam is Iran's Arabic-language television channel and Dubai-based Al Arabiya is mostly Saudi owned.

Al Jazeera, which together with Al Arabiya gained popularity among Arab viewers for its graphic coverage of the 2003 war in Iraq, denounced the allegations and said it would continue to cover news in Iraq.

"Al Jazeera condemns this method of dealing with the press and considers the allegations and threats as tantamount to incitement against the channel and its staff working in Iraq," the television said in a statement faxed to Reuters.

Dubai-based Al Arabiya could not be immediately reached for comment.

Al Jazeera unveiled a code of ethics earlier this month, pledging to adhere to honesty, fairness and balance.

Iraqi officials have previously temporarily limited operations of the Qatar-based channel and its competitor, Dubai-based Al Arabiya, accusing them of inciting violence.

The U.S. administration has repeatedly criticised Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya's coverage of Iraq claiming they were biased. Both channels have repeatedly aired footage of anti-U.S. attacks and statements from Iraqi insurgents and from kidnappers of hostages in Iraq.
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004072515410002943334&dt=20040725154100&w=RTR&coview=
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2004 11:57 pm
ican711nm wrote:
I recommend everyone also see "Fahrenheit 451." It too is a work of fiction, but it represents an interesting prediction of the nature of human life on earth if too many watch Fahrenheit 9/11. Sad


This regime is the most repressive and censorious in the history of the USA, and seems to be becoming more so.
This is the regime which has withdrawn from public record over 6000 documents.
Plenty of Americans would like to find out, for example, what part "Kenny-Boy" played in drafting government energy policy, but Cheyney won't let them- "executive privilege". And so it goes. If you want to quote Kurt Vonnegut in support of your arguments (who would be amused, I'm sure, to be grouped together with Wolfowitz and Cheyney) I think you're on quite thin ice.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 12:27 am
Shocked oops not again.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 12:27 am
McTag wrote:
This regime is the most repressive and censorious in the history of the USA, and seems to be becoming more so.
Laughing Love that penchant for the extreme. What a hoot. What percentage of what Carter or Reagan did was purposely made public knowledge? Laughing You got spoiled by slick, mostly because he didn't do anything. Idea
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 03:48 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
McTag wrote:
This regime is the most repressive and censorious in the history of the USA, and seems to be becoming more so.
Laughing Love that penchant for the extreme. What a hoot. What percentage of what Carter or Reagan did was purposely made public knowledge? Laughing You got spoiled by slick, mostly because he didn't do anything. Idea


Friend Ican mentioned a famous book about censorship. He is off attending to the bullet hole in his foot.

You guys have failed to notice yet, I'm not partisan, not even American. I am an even-handed observer, with an interest in staying alive and enjoying the rest of my life. My detached viewpoint, however, allows me to see Mr Bush and his minders for what they are.

I'll say one thing for "Slick", he didn't have naked statues draped.

McTag
0 Replies
 
the reincarnation of suzy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 04:54 am
Wolfowitz at one point wanted the military to take over policing the American public, I heard recently!
Isn't that special?
I guess at the time he wasn't yet aware how much the military would be needed elsewhere.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 12:53 pm
McTag wrote:
This regime is the most repressive and censorious in the history of the USA, and seems to be becoming more so. This is the regime which has withdrawn from public record over 6000 documents.


Your post is a fiction. In fact it is a stupid fiction. I infer this fiction of yours is inspired by a virtual explosion of false information since 1/20/2001 about the Bush Administration that is instigated by a plethora of lying but skilled propagandists.

Withholding the content of administrative documents, meetings, and conversations from the public is a privilege (called in the US Executive Privilege) lawfully and responsibly exercised many many times by each and every President of these United States of America. Such privilege has proven essential to the preservation of the security of the United States and the ability of the President to effectively and efficiently perform the functions delegated to the President by the Constitution of the United States.

Quote:
The Constitution of the United States of America
Effective as of March 4, 1789
...
Article II
...
Section 1.
...
The President shall ... efore he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.
He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.
The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

Section 3. He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.


The part played by this or that person or their motivations in persuading the President to adopt this or that policy is of little interest to those who lack intense hatred of Bush. What most are interested in is what are the adopted policies and what are their probable consequences.

McTag wrote:
If you want to quote Kurt Vonnegut in support of your arguments (who would be amused, I'm sure, to be grouped together with Wolfowitz and Cheyney) I think you're on quite thin ice.


Both my feet continue to be healthy. How about yours? Laughing

I did not quote Kurt. I merely recommended that people see his movie "Farenheit 451" after seeing "Fahrenheit 9/11" to learn the probable consequences of allowing oneself to be influenced by "Fahrenheit 9/11" = F9/11.

F9/11 is an admittedly entertaining yet flagrant lying propaganda work (i.e., the author knows his movie's falsities are falsities). Lying propaganda has historically proven to be a prelude to book burning (e.g., The National Socialist Party of Germany circa 1935). That in turn has likewise proven to be a prelude to mass murder. So, I recommend that people see where allowing themselves to become victims of lying propaganda will ultimately lead them. I have also recommended that after seeing "Fahreneit 451", they see "1984" to understand the ultimate consequences to the dissemination of truth of organizing government to pacify the perniciously envious instead of organizing government to promote individual accomplishment.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 12:56 pm
Quote:
I have also recommend that after seeing "Fahreneit 451", they see "1984" to understand the ultimate consequences to the dissemination of truth of organizing government to pacify the perniciously envious instead of organizing government to promote individual accomplishment.


If you are afraid of people destroying records, you should look the other direction at the current Admin, Icann....

They seem to have a tough time keeping records and documents safe, yaknow?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 01:17 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
If you are afraid of people destroying records, you should look the other direction at the current Admin, Icann....
They seem to have a tough time keeping records and documents safe, yaknow?

Laughing
Occum Bill is right. These distortions of reality in the name of "remove Bush" are funny, extremely funny. No, that way understates it! They are hysterical. Laughing Laughing Laughing

Ok, let's play!

Clearly it's Bush's fault that Sandy Burger, former National Security Adviser to Clinton, stole and lost by accident copies and original, secret documents formally held in the National Archives. It happened on Bush's watch didn't it? Twisted Evil If Bush wasn't so compulsively involved with the Osama war against America and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, he would have easily prevented Burger's larcenous behavior. Bush could have used some of that military budget he is so freely spending to hire a competent psychiatrist to help relieve poor Sandy of his emotional but well intended proclivities. Where's some of that conservative compassion for Sandy that Bush talks about? Do we need another commission to determine for Bush what and how to reduce such administrative failures?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2004 01:22 pm
Heh. At what point did I say that the last admin was better, or that Berger had anything to do with your statement at all?

Don't make up my side of the argument to see if I will bite, because I won't. Your admin (well, the one you seem to support) seems to have a hard time maintaining accurate records, and a harder time delivering those records to the public. In light of your statements about F/451 I thought I might mention that in order to provide a little focus for your alarm.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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