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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 02:23 pm
Quote:
Baghdad Burning

... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...
Tuesday, November 16, 2004

American Heroes...
I'm feeling sick- literally. I can't get the video Al-Jazeera played out of my head:

The mosque strewn with bodies of Iraqis- not still with prayer or meditation, but prostrate with death- Some seemingly bloated… an old man with a younger one leaning upon him… legs, feet, hands, blood everywhere… The dusty sun filtering in through the windows… the stillness of the horrid place. Then the stillness is broken- in walk some marines, guns pointed at the bodies... the mosque resonates with harsh American voices arguing over a body- was he dead, was he alive? I watched, tense, wondering what they would do- I expected the usual Marines treatment- that a heavy, booted foot would kick the man perhaps to see if he groaned. But it didn't work that way- the crack of gunfire suddenly explodes in the mosque as the Marine fires at the seemingly dead man and then come the words, "He's dead now."

"He's dead now." He said it calmly, matter-of-factly, in a sort of sing-song voice that made my blood run cold… and the Marines around him didn't care. They just roamed around the mosque and began to drag around the corpses because, apparently, this was nothing to them. This was probably a commonplace incident.

We sat, horrified, stunned with the horror of the scene that unfolded in front of our eyes. It's the third day of Eid and we were finally able to gather as a family- a cousin, his wife and their two daughters, two aunts, and an elderly uncle. E. and my cousin had been standing in line for two days to get fuel so we could go visit the elderly uncle on the final day of a very desolate Eid. The room was silent at the end of the scene, with only the voice of the news anchor and the sobs of my aunt. My little cousin flinched and dropped her spoon, face frozen with shock, eyes wide with disbelief, glued to the television screen, "Is he dead? Did they kill him?" I swallowed hard, trying to gulp away the lump lodged in my throat and watched as my cousin buried his face in his hands, ashamed to look at his daughter.

"What was I supposed to tell them?" He asked, an hour later, after we had sent his two daughters to help their grandmother in the kitchen. "What am I supposed to tell them- 'Yes darling, they killed him- the Americans killed a wounded man; they are occupying our country, killing people and we are sitting here eating, drinking and watching tv'?" He shook his head, "How much more do they have to see? What is left for them to see?"

They killed a wounded man. It's hard to believe. They killed a man who was completely helpless- like he was some sort of diseased animal. I had read the articles and heard the stories of this happening before- wounded civilians being thrown on the side of the road or shot in cold blood- but to see it happening on television is something else- it makes me crazy with anger.

And what will happen now? A criminal investigation against a single Marine who did the shooting? Just like what happened with the Abu Ghraib atrocities? A couple of people will be blamed and the whole thing will be buried under the rubble of idiotic military psychologists, defense analysts, Pentagon officials and spokespeople and it will be forgotten. In the end, all anyone will remember is that a single Marine shot and killed a single Iraqi 'insurgent' and it won't matter anymore.

It's typical American technique- every single atrocity is lost and covered up by blaming a specific person and getting it over with. What people don't understand is that the whole military is infested with these psychopaths. In this last year we've seen murderers, torturers and xenophobes running around in tanks and guns. I don't care what does it: I don't care if it's the tension, the fear, the 'enemy'… it's murder. We are occupied by murderers. We're under the same pressure, as Iraqis, except that we weren't trained for this situation, and yet we're all expected to be benevolent and understanding and, above all, grateful. I'm feeling sick, depressed and frightened. I don't know what to say anymore… they aren't humans and they don't deserve any compassion.

So why is the world so obsessed with beheadings? How is this so very different? The difference is that the people who are doing the beheadings are extremists… the people slaughtering Iraqis- torturing in prisons and shooting wounded prisoners- are "American Heroes". Congratulations, you must be so proud of yourselves today.

Excuse me please, I'm going to go be sick for a little while.


- posted by river @ 9:37 PM
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 02:39 pm
Fox is showing the House international relations committee hearing on Oil For Food Program live. Dulfer is speaking now!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Nov, 2004 03:22 pm
Quote:
So why is the world so obsessed with beheadings? How is this so very different? The difference is that the people who are doing the beheadings are extremists… the people slaughtering Iraqis- torturing in prisons and shooting wounded prisoners- are "American Heroes".


So why is the world so obsessed with beheadings and the thousands of other murders of Iraqi civilians? How is this killing of a wounded murderer of Iraqi civilians so very different? The difference is that the people who are doing the beheadings are extremist mass murderers of Iraqi civilians… the people slaughtering the Iraqi mass murderers of Iraqi civilians, and torturing in prisons and shooting wounded prisoners who are mass murderers of Iraqi citizens--are "American Heroes".
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 12:32 am
http://img131.exs.cx/img131/8581/IQ-Bush-ow.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 01:20 am
Quote:
Escape from Fallujah: refugees flood nearby towns
By Kim Sengupta in Babil
18 November 2004


While United States forces mount the final military operations to pacify Fallujah, the people of the devastated city have taken refuge in outlying towns, many of them huddled in misery, without adequate food, water, medicine and shelter.

More than 80 per cent of the population of 300,000 are living in nearby towns or in Baghdad. The US military has barred aid convoys from Fallujah, insisting they have enough resources to look after the remaining civilians. But the few who have ventured to the distribution centres risk getting caught in crossfire.

Aid organisations say 102,000 Fallujah refugees are in Amiriyah, 50,000 are in Baghdad; about 21,600 are in Karma, 18,000 are in Nieamiyah and 12,000 are in Habbaniyah. Unicef and the aid groups say Amiriyah, an industrial centre, suffers from a serious lack of shelter, and Habbaniyah, formerly a tourist resort, has a severe shortage of clean water. It is also the place most difficult to get to because of the threat from insurgents.

Iyad Allawi, Iraq's interim Prime Minister, has accused the Iraqi Red Crescent of deliberately painting a bleak picture and claimed that several of its senior officials had held posts under Saddam. The organisation, as well as other agencies, is deeply apprehensive of making statements lest it provokes the government into further curtailing agencies' activities.

General Abdul Qadir Mohan, the commander of the Iraqi government forces for the Fallujah assault, said refugee conditions are worsening, particularly in Habbaniyah. "In some cases, there are seven families living in one room and sometimes 300 people have to wait in line to use the toilet. Many are already suffering from diseases. It is a holy duty to return these people home."

Bilal Hussein, a 33-year-old photographer for Associated Press, who escaped the city during the fighting, said: "I decided to swim the river. But I changed my mind after seeing US helicopters firing and killing people who tried to cross. I saw a family of five shot dead. I helped bury a man by the river bank with my own hands."

Mr Hussein had planned to stay in Fallujah to cover the fighting. But he said he fled after feeling he was in grave danger. "US soldiers began to open fire on the houses, so I decided it was very dangerous to stay," he said. "Destruction was everywhere. I saw people dead in the streets, the wounded were bleeding and there was no one to help them."

Fayouz Mohammed Abdullah, a 42-year-old trader, had sent his wife and four children out of Fallujah just before the attack. He had stayed to protect his home, not just from the fighting, but the looting he thought would inevitably follow. He managed to get away just as US troops overran his neighbourhood in the north of the city, and is now with his family in Habbaniyah.

Mr Abdullah said by telephone: "I came out with my hands up and holding a white pillow case. The main danger came from Iraqi [government] soldiers. Two of them wanted to shoot me, and I must say it was an American who stopped them. They talked about arresting me, and I was made to sit against a wall with my head between my knees. But then there was more firing and they went away somewhere.

"I walked out of Fallujah. There was firing everywhere, but by Allah's will I was not hit. Outside the city there was a bus with women and I got on that. The Americans did not stop us and we got to Habbaniyah. We have relations here and we have somewhere to stay. But everything is in bad supply. There is not enough food. What little food we have, we give to our children. I am also worried that when we go back to Fallujah there will be nothing left of our home."

Ahmed Ali Safah, a teacher, arrived at Habbaniyah with his family before the assault. "We heard the Americans were saying it was the last chance we had to leave. So we came with just a few suitcases; we left everything behind. We are staying in a house with three other families and there must be 30 people here. The children are being sick but there is no medicine. Trucks [from the Red Crescent] came here with blankets and food. They also had tablets for bad water, but they had all finished by the time we got to the trucks."

Umm Haider lost her husband in the Iraq-Iran war. She said: "I left four of my sons behind. They had said they would join me here if the situation became worse. I do not know how much worse it can get."
Source
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 01:58 am
ican, you quote wrong chapters the 9/11 commission report, and in the wrong chronology.

In Chapter 2.4 the 9/11 commission goes on and on speculating about Bin Ladin, Turabi, Saddam and Ansar al Islam and indications that the Iraqi regime tolerated and may even have helped Ansar, etc, etc.

Later, in Chapter 2.5 the commission reduces its speculative claims about Bin Ladin and Saddam to a series of friendly contacts and indications that there are some common themes in both sides' hatred of the US, and then proceed to say that there was no evidence of a collaborative operational relationship. Note how there is no mention of an exception of a collaborative harboring relationship in their dismissal, contrary to your hallucinogenic claims thereof.

The commission was spinning a yarn based upon self-admittedly unreliable reports and allegations in Chapter 2.4, and then in Chapter 2.5 dismiss it all by denying any evidence of a collaborative operational relationship, no qualifiers added, between al Qaeda--this would include, by your own working definition of "al Qaeda," Abu Musab al-Zarqawi--and Saddam.

The 9/11 commission renders it's own twiddlings in Chapter 2.4 irrelevant by its denial in Chapter 2.5; it repudiates Powell's UN speech, and it's made chumps out of Saddam/al Qaeda conspiricists.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 08:17 am
Ge, love that chart! Cool Thanks.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 08:49 am
Kara wrote:
Ge, love that chart! Cool Thanks.


You know what's sad, Duhbya won on the basis of us or them .... I am more moral than you! This juxtaposition in and of it's self ..... is immoral!
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 08:54 am
That chart has already been shown to be a hoax.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 09:03 am
Keep your fingers crossed everyone that this story JW found comes true!
North Korean Leader Kim Jong il decides not to make the same mistake as Saddam - Democracy in North Korea?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 09:07 am
North Korean analysts in Seoul and Tokyo said they do not believe there has been any kind of coup d'etat, but that Kim might be trying to soften his dictatorial public image.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 09:07 am
MerlinsGodson wrote:
That chart has already been shown to be a hoax.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp


It's one of those faith based things .... ya gotta believe .... then you get the manna from DC .... non believers get no manna Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 09:16 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
North Korean analysts in Seoul and Tokyo said they do not believe there has been any kind of coup d'etat, but that Kim might be trying to soften his dictatorial public image.
That's one hundred times more likely, but I can dream... and I love that headline! Smile
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 09:45 am
If North Koreans get a choice, they might choose.....to attack you, Bill. It is a deadly insult in Korea to wear a cheese and a beard at the same time.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 09:50 am
Shocked Lucky thing I shaved!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_1_303.gif
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 10:37 am
Quote:
It is a deadly insult in Korea...


Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 11:56 am
Gelisgesti wrote:
http://img131.exs.cx/img131/8581/IQ-Bush-ow.jpg
Laughing

Gee! I tink anibudy what 'leeves dees numba's is dumba dan any ub 'em 'cuz da la't sen'ence says:

Quote:
This data has been published in the Econonomist and the St. Petersburg Times, though this does not mean it should be taken as fact.


Duhhh Laughing
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 12:25 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
ican, you quote wrong chapters the 9/11 commission report, and in the wrong chronology.
Laughing

The chapter references are correct. I have in my possession:" The 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT, FINAL REPORT OF THE NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES, AUTHORIZED EDITION, W.W. Norton & Company, New York London, Printed in the United States of America, First Edition. www.wwnorton.com

Wrong chronology? Laughing Chronology of what is wrong? Laughing


InfraBlue wrote:
In Chapter ... Laughing ... and Saddam.
just twiddle Laughing

The US ground invasion of Iraq was justified for at least the same reasons we invaded Afghanistan.

We invaded Afghanistan on the ground, because (according to the 9-11 Commission Report) the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan refused to stop harboring al Qaeda in Afghanistan despite our repeated warnings to stop, and we couldn't stop them via air attacks.

We invaded Iraq on the ground, because (according to the 9-11 Commission Report) the Baathist rulers (i.e., Saddam Hussein et al) of Iraq refused to stop harboring al Qaeda in Iraq despite our repeated warnings to stop, and we couldn't stop them via air attacks.

Also, the Taliban were murdering Afghanistan civilians and the Baathists were murdering Iraqi civilians.

Additionally, Saddam told his subordinates (according to the Duelfer Report) that the development of WMD would resume as soon as the sanctions on Iraq were lifted.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 12:30 pm
MerlinsGodson wrote:
That chart has already been shown to be a hoax.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp


Merlin, I thought your post warranted reposting with emphasis.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2004 12:35 pm
Ican,

Your attempt to make it seem as if we were after AQ in Iraq all along does NOT match the reality of the wording of press confernces given by the admin at the time EXPLAINING why we were going to war in Iraq.

I understand you think there WERE good reasons for going to war there; my point is that the reasons you are presenting were NOT the major reasons presented to the American public.

You don't really need me to quote you dozens of speeches to SHOW where the emphasis was placed, do you? Because you already know: WMD.

There is little moral justification for finding reasoning after the fact in a military action like this, other than to 'support' one side of the argument....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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